Untothislast - I agree with what you're saying, well most of it. I'm not sure I buy the full on 1984 Big Brother thermal imaging, mainly because it's not currently implented in any huge way already and it will cost a fortune in fossils to run. But on a slightly smaller level, yes, I agree - stay off the map for as long as possible. I was more wondering why people felt the rural option automatically meant isolation - it doesn't. That's either a good thing or a bad thing depending on your point of view and how the future actually plays out.
I tend to see it initially playing out a la post 2001 Argentina or post Soviet Russia. In those cases a rural, but not isolated, setting seems to be the best bet. I'm happy I'm within shouting distance from my neighbours - and I don't even have to shout that loud. At the back of my property (10 acres) is a huge forest, and at the back of that is the uninhabited Wicklow Mountains. Naturally, I think this gives me my best chance of survival in just about any scenario - but then I would say that, or else I wouldn't be here. Still, just because I have this set up, doesn't mean it'll save me when TSHTF. I have to actually make the effort to do something with it - it's not what you've got, it's how you use it.
I'm not sure walls are the way to go, they seem to encourage people to climb them just to see what's on the other side.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut don't think for a second you can escape, for long, the fallout of what's about to engulf us all.
PeakOil is You
The peak oil crisis: Alarms are sounding
Re: The peak oil crisis: Alarms are sounding
by Ebyss » Sat 19 May 2007, 08:10:41
Agree 100%
On this topic, I was reading one of FerFAL's articles, and he was saying how really isolated farms were not good places to live. Criminals tend to keep the farmers hostages in their own house, torturing and raping them until they're finished stealing all their resources :/ There's safety in numbers, isolation won't work - you're too vulnerable.
We've tried nothin' and we're all out of ideas.
I am only one. I can only do what one can do. But what one can do, I will do. -- John Seymour.
I am only one. I can only do what one can do. But what one can do, I will do. -- John Seymour.
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Ebyss - Tar Sands
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Re: The peak oil crisis: Alarms are sounding
by TheTurtle » Sat 19 May 2007, 09:43:51
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Twilight', 'T')he majority will feel economic and social implications before they understand the underlying reasons. The temptation to blame the enemy within or without will be strong, and some countries will go to the grave not knowing what caused their madness.
I see it already. Here in the US, people are blaming the "greedy oil companies" for not building more refineries to help lower the high cost of gasoline, not even realizing that if greedy oil companies thought there was profit to be made in building more refineries, then those refineries would certainly be built.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Twilight', 'U')nless there is a global financial meltdown (even then the blame will fall on the meltdown), people across the world are not going to say at breakfast, "Honey, the global economic system is coming to an end because of resource constraints to fossil fuel extraction, deferred energy system maintenance and industry demographics. Let's go do a run on the bank and load up the pickup at Costco."
Exactly! I have come to this same realization and have spent the first part of this year preparing for a long, slow meltdown. I live essentially debt-free in a small house within easy biking distance of what I take to be a recession/depression proof job. I have months worth of basic supplies on hand and am working to create a perma-culture based garden in my back yard that I like to think Ludi would approve.
If the long, slow meltdown becomes more catastrophic than I have anticipated, Plan B is to slip so deeply into "the backwoods that not even thermal imaging is likely to pick [us] out," where I can use the primitive survival lore that I have been accumulating for the past few years to live a comfortable Paleolithic life as we create myths of the "Golden Age" that once spanned the globe.
“Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.” (Ted Perry)
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TheTurtle - Heavy Crude
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Re: The peak oil crisis: Alarms are sounding
by vision-master » Sat 19 May 2007, 10:11:23
What goes up, must come down
What must rise, must fall
And what goes on in your life
Is writing on the wall
If all things must fall
Why build a miracle at all
If all things must pass
Even a miracle won’t last
What goes up, must come down
What must stand alone?
And what goes on, in your mind
Is turning into stone
If all things must fall
Why build a miracle at all
If all things must pass
Even a pyramid won’t last
How can you be so sure?
How do you know what the earth will endure?
How can you be so sure?
That the wonders you’ve made in you life
Will be seen
By the millions who’ll follow to visit the site
Of your dream?
What goes up, must come down
What goes round, must come round
What’s been lost, must be found
What must rise, must fall
And what goes on in your life
Is writing on the wall
If all things must fall
Why build a miracle at all
If all things must pass
Even a miracle won’t last
What goes up, must come down
What must stand alone?
And what goes on, in your mind
Is turning into stone
If all things must fall
Why build a miracle at all
If all things must pass
Even a pyramid won’t last
How can you be so sure?
How do you know what the earth will endure?
How can you be so sure?
That the wonders you’ve made in you life
Will be seen
By the millions who’ll follow to visit the site
Of your dream?
What goes up, must come down
What goes round, must come round
What’s been lost, must be found
- vision-master
Re: The peak oil crisis: Alarms are sounding
by RdSnt » Sat 19 May 2007, 10:30:31
I too am of the opinion that the majority of the first world public simply will not see or act to PO. There will be a continuous series of crisis, accumulating over a reasonably short period of time.
By the time things are really bad, and people start to panic and die, the causes of be irrelevant. The crowds over-reactions will be touched off by whatever is closest to hand at the moment.
I and my wife are prepared. We have lived in all kinds of conditions, primitive and sophisticated. While is sounds poetic, we will ride the wave of accumulating chaos, and change our tactics as the circumstances dictate.
That may appear to be a prediction that we will cope well and survive, but with many decades of experience we are under no illusions. There may be events we won't be able to manage. In those cases we can only hope we see them coming in enough time to step out of the way.
We are also prepared to lead, if that is what is required.
That is a subject that I don't see coming up on this forum. Everyone here is thinking of their own survival, and to put it bluntly "to hell with the idiots who haven't prepared". Yet, many acknowledge that survival can't be done in isolation. Leadership may be required.
More specifically, once the bulk of the savage panic has subsided, people will need leadership. It is in the aftermath of the initial chaos the conditions will be rip for mass death and accelerated societal dissolution.
Leadership, even in small ways, will mitigate the damage.
By the time things are really bad, and people start to panic and die, the causes of be irrelevant. The crowds over-reactions will be touched off by whatever is closest to hand at the moment.
I and my wife are prepared. We have lived in all kinds of conditions, primitive and sophisticated. While is sounds poetic, we will ride the wave of accumulating chaos, and change our tactics as the circumstances dictate.
That may appear to be a prediction that we will cope well and survive, but with many decades of experience we are under no illusions. There may be events we won't be able to manage. In those cases we can only hope we see them coming in enough time to step out of the way.
We are also prepared to lead, if that is what is required.
That is a subject that I don't see coming up on this forum. Everyone here is thinking of their own survival, and to put it bluntly "to hell with the idiots who haven't prepared". Yet, many acknowledge that survival can't be done in isolation. Leadership may be required.
More specifically, once the bulk of the savage panic has subsided, people will need leadership. It is in the aftermath of the initial chaos the conditions will be rip for mass death and accelerated societal dissolution.
Leadership, even in small ways, will mitigate the damage.
Gravity is not a force, it is a boundary layer.
Everything is coincident.
Love: the state of suspended anticipation.
To get any appreciable distance from the Earth in
a sensible amount of time, you must lie.
Everything is coincident.
Love: the state of suspended anticipation.
To get any appreciable distance from the Earth in
a sensible amount of time, you must lie.
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RdSnt - Heavy Crude
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Re: The peak oil crisis: Alarms are sounding
by retiredguy » Sat 19 May 2007, 11:29:26
I'll third that sentiment about leadership.
Two of our village trustees were peak oil aware and pressed an agenda for local response to the coming crisis. The issue was raised, but not well-received. The agenda has stalled and one of the trustees has been voted off the board and the other won't run again.
However, I do meet with these guys and our plan is to form a government-in-waiting. WTSHF, there will be a power-vacuum and guess who hopes to fill it.
Two of our village trustees were peak oil aware and pressed an agenda for local response to the coming crisis. The issue was raised, but not well-received. The agenda has stalled and one of the trustees has been voted off the board and the other won't run again.
However, I do meet with these guys and our plan is to form a government-in-waiting. WTSHF, there will be a power-vacuum and guess who hopes to fill it.
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retiredguy - Tar Sands
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- Location: southern Wisconsin
Re: The peak oil crisis: Alarms are sounding
by abelardlindsay » Sat 19 May 2007, 13:09:31
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('untothislast', '
')Even before our projected 'Day 1' of PO, martial law will be in place - together with the same sort of provisions to be able to seize any of your goods and home, if deemed for the public good, which many governments had set in place for dealing with Y2K.
')Even before our projected 'Day 1' of PO, martial law will be in place - together with the same sort of provisions to be able to seize any of your goods and home, if deemed for the public good, which many governments had set in place for dealing with Y2K.
Don't expect things to be that organized. Think Hurricane Katrina not 9/11. Remember, the government will have less energy to work with as well and they rely on the global supply chain and their employees driving to work just as much as you do.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('untothislast', '
')All I'm saying, is don't expect to be left alone, and that you'll be needing more than small armaments to deal with a military allowed to use the nastiest and most technological weapons at its disposal - and free to do so, because you will have been demonised by the media as selfish un-(fill in the nationality) survivalists beforehand.
They aren't going to bother to waste all that gas to fly the black helicopters out to your house just to mess with you
. Have you ever been in a country where the government doesn't have it's sh** together? I've visited many in some of the poorer Latin American countries. Sure the military barges around a bit and screws with people but top down centralized 1984 style command of everybody it's not. Think Somalia not Singapore.$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('untothislast', '
')For most of the rest of us (and let's be honest, we'd join you like a shot if the offer was open, just on the small off-chance we might actually get away with it) I still say the logical safeguard is to quietly squirrel away a manageable store of provisions to cope with any prospective shortages. Do this on a rotational basis, starting today if you haven't already.
The shortages are going to last for a really long time, probably the rest of your life. Temporary food on hand will help but only for a little while but you should learn how to farm.
