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The peak oil crisis: Alarms are sounding

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: The peak oil crisis: Alarms are sounding

Unread postby dinopello » Thu 17 May 2007, 17:38:26

one_more_day - thanks for the observations, stuff like that is very useful to know. Things are getting tough for people.

I am a little suprised at 1. - in that people actually are close enough to walk to grocery and other places. That is unusual, but very helpful I think.


8 is interesting, but I believe it. For me, and many who live around here, gas is not a big daily expense because many walk, bike or transit to work every day which is usually the big (constant) factor. So then, an unusual thing, like a vacation doesn't seem that big a deal if fuel costs are close to double what was anticipated. Say you are going 500 miles away in a car that gets 20 mpg. At $2/gal thats $100 round trip (1000 miles). So if $4, its $200. For most, that would still be a small fraction of the vacation expense. But it may be mentally.

Many people around here are driving Prius or other Hybrid, but i believe it is mostly because of 2 factors. One is that there are many enviromentalists that think they are saving the planet (the county government recently had James Lovelock come in and speak). The other factor is that it allows you to drive on the HOV lanes which avoids a lot of traffic for those that do drive. On the other hand, you also see a lot of Hummers and other SUV's and that's because people have way too much money on their hands.

Arlington is kind of atypical I think and may have a majority that are peak oil aware. The other day at a baseball game I was talking to a friend and giving my 'expert' opinion on the refinery crunch and how it may be interacting with the Peak of Light Sweet Crude. The two guys next to us swiveled their heads and asked me if I thought Light Sweet Crude had peaked, obviously being aware (at some level) of what that meant. One was a banker, the other a contractor for the weather service.

The costs increasing for food, construction materials etc is definately being noticed. I tend to eat out more because it seems like my favorite restaurant prices haven't gone up. Must be hitting their bottom line.
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Re: The peak oil crisis: Alarms are sounding

Unread postby vision-master » Thu 17 May 2007, 17:41:10

In the US it's about if'n you got the money - you can buy as much gas as you wish. I can never see this changing. The Yatchs are still cruising up & down the river at will! Too bad for the poor folk, but it ain't the rich peoples problem. :razz:
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Re: The peak oil crisis: Alarms are sounding

Unread postby vision-master » Thu 17 May 2007, 17:45:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')rlington is kind of atypical I think and may have a majority that are peak oil aware. The other day at a baseball game I was talking to a friend and giving my 'expert' opinion on the refinery crunch and how it may be interacting with the Peak of Light Sweet Crude. The two guys next to us swiveled their heads and asked me if I thought Light Sweet Crude had peaked, obviously being aware (at some level) of what that meant. One was a banker, the other a contractor for the weather service.


I don't even bring up PO anymore. I just razz people about gas prices. The sheeple don't have a clue. Eveyone's sleeping..........
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Re: The peak oil crisis: Alarms are sounding

Unread postby airstrip1 » Thu 17 May 2007, 17:52:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Twilight', '[')url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6615327.stm]Maybe we will start looking at proposals like this.[/url]


I read that article earlier today on the BBC's web site. Once again it highlighted how many of the solutions proposed for dealing with Global Warming are exactly the same as those that will be required for coping with Peak Oil. I am not normally a fan of conspiracy theories but I am starting to get the distinct impression that the media is being used to soften us up for what is to come.
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Re: The peak oil crisis: Alarms are sounding

Unread postby Twilight » Thu 17 May 2007, 18:02:59

To be honest, these days I perform an instant mental substitution for global warming. Not that I don't believe in the concept, but half the time that's not really what is being talked about.
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Re: The peak oil crisis: Alarms are sounding

Unread postby gnm » Thu 17 May 2007, 18:06:50

There ya go... See you're cutting back because you're a virtuous greenie trying to save the planet. Now go home and pat yourself on the back but keep investing and buying overpriced neo-green save the planet crap from whole foods, rei, and gaiam and everything will be just fine. You can even keep motoring around in your spanking new Prius.

Maybe TPTB think that people will stomach that better than the other option which is you're cutting back on all aspects of your current lifestyle because you have to and wait til next year when there is even less available and OMG you're going to be in a world of hurt in 10 years but hey we will have bled the economy dry and will all be living on private ranches/islands with our own security forces so FU consumers its time to die because you're no use to us then...

/RANT

Lots more hitch-hikers and people walking along highways where I have never seen them before. I saw 2 people walking up a road which went for like 5 miles before housing (and they were carrying grocery bags) 8O

And before you berate me for not giving them a lift I was on my motorcycle...

-G
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Re: The peak oil crisis: Alarms are sounding

Unread postby dinopello » Thu 17 May 2007, 18:17:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gnm', 'T')here ya go... See you're cutting back because you're a virtuous greenie trying to save the planet. Now go home and pat yourself on the back but keep investing and buying overpriced neo-green save the planet crap from whole foods, rei, and gaiam and everything will be just fine. You can even keep motoring around in your spanking new Prius.


I hope you aren't referring to moi... cause you would be mistaken.
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Re: The peak oil crisis: Alarms are sounding

Unread postby KevO » Thu 17 May 2007, 18:18:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Twilight', '[')url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6615327.stm]Maybe we will start looking at proposals like this.[/url]



and they still dress it as a measure for global warming!
what they gonna say when the US Senate convinces everyone that gw is not man made?
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Re: The peak oil crisis: Alarms are sounding

Unread postby keehah » Thu 17 May 2007, 18:43:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'w')hat they gonna say when the US Senate convinces everyone that gw is not man made?


When it has to do with hiding imminent peak oil effects, I think many Americians will be just as suprised as Canadians were the last couple months when our conservatives suddenly stoped and reversed direction from 30 years of active GW denial:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]In Reversal, Canada's Conservatives Embrace Environmental Concerns

By Doug Struck Washington Post Monday, January 22, 2007; Page A13

TORONTO, Jan. 21 -- Canada's Conservative Party government, faced with a strong public demand for action on climate change, is scrambling to rebuild environmental programs that it dismantled last year and offer new initiatives.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/21/AR2007012101019.html
Last edited by keehah on Fri 18 May 2007, 18:37:30, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The peak oil crisis: Alarms are sounding

Unread postby RdSnt » Thu 17 May 2007, 18:43:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KevO', 'D')o you think, if such a scenario were to ever occur, that the US would send it's NG or Marines into Canada to get the fuel it has paid for?


I could be wrong, but my understanding is that Canada is somehow treaty-bound to sell us certain percentages of oil and NG. Bust a deal, face the wheel in bartertown.
:) Bartertown? where is that?


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Everything is coincident.
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Re: The peak oil crisis: Alarms are sounding

Unread postby RdSnt » Thu 17 May 2007, 18:45:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KevO', 'D')o you think, if such a scenario were to ever occur, that the US would send it's NG or Marines into Canada to get the fuel it has paid for?


I could be wrong, but my understanding is that Canada is somehow treaty-bound to sell us certain percentages of oil and NG. Bust a deal, face the wheel in bartertown.


That's right, our NAFTA agreements prevent us from legally shutting the tapes. Even to the detriment of our own provinces. If we are short product, the US gets priority.
Gravity is not a force, it is a boundary layer.
Everything is coincident.
Love: the state of suspended anticipation.
To get any appreciable distance from the Earth in
a sensible amount of time, you must lie.
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Re: The peak oil crisis: Alarms are sounding

Unread postby killJOY » Thu 17 May 2007, 18:52:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') just thought I'd make a list of changes that I see in my area. I live in a poor neighborhood, so I will most likely see changes sooner than those of you in wealthier areas.


Hi, one more day.

I apparently live in a retarded area:

1. 100 acre woodland across the street being surveyed for new trailer park.

2. New bank going in "downtown" even though buildings have been for sale there for over a year now.

3. Proposals tossed around for a highway "bypass" to accomodate growing traffic.

4. Two gas stations in town close shop, another huge one opens up.

5. Farmers are weird, nasty people. Shopping centers are "nice."
Peak oil = comet Kohoutek.
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Re: The peak oil crisis: Alarms are sounding

Unread postby joewp » Thu 17 May 2007, 19:37:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('killJOY', '
')
Hi, one more day.

I apparently live in a retarded area:


It's also known as a "growing community". We have the same crap going on here, and instead of people fighting it, they're laying back and taking it, even discussing which big box stores they would prefer. I try to instruct them with Dr. Bartlett's "Arithmetic, Population & Energy" video and this essay by him, but I get invited to move to Alaska if I don't like it here.

That's looking more inviting every day. I'm not sure I want to spend the summer around here with $3.50 - $4.00 gas prices.
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Re: The peak oil crisis: Alarms are sounding

Unread postby dinopello » Thu 17 May 2007, 20:02:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('killJOY', '
')Hi, one more day.

I apparently live in a retarded area:



The apparently like one type of farming. They are sowing new roads, so they will reap traffic.
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Re: The peak oil crisis: Alarms are sounding

Unread postby MattSavinar » Thu 17 May 2007, 20:13:00

All you non-doomers can now kiss my ass.

[smilie=bootyshake.gif]
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Re: The peak oil crisis: Alarms are sounding

Unread postby MattSavinar » Thu 17 May 2007, 20:14:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RdSnt', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KevO', 'D')o you think, if such a scenario were to ever occur, that the US would send it's NG or Marines into Canada to get the fuel it has paid for?


I could be wrong, but my understanding is that Canada is somehow treaty-bound to sell us certain percentages of oil and NG. Bust a deal, face the wheel in bartertown.


That's right, our NAFTA agreements prevent us from legally shutting the tapes. Even to the detriment of our own provinces. If we are short product, the US gets priority.


[smilie=ky.gif]
http://www.peakoil.org
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Re: The peak oil crisis: Alarms are sounding

Unread postby Pops » Thu 17 May 2007, 20:36:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', 'A')ll you non-doomers can now kiss my ass.

[smilie=bootyshake.gif]


How are things in the greater Bay Area?
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: The peak oil crisis: Alarms are sounding

Unread postby dinopello » Thu 17 May 2007, 20:43:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', 'A')ll you non-doomers can now kiss my ass.

[smilie=bootyshake.gif]


How are things in the greater Bay Area?


Yes, what's up? The last two emoticons Matt uses are one that represents him bending over and the next was a tube of K-Y Jelly.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', '[')smilie=ky.gif]


Coincidence?
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Re: The peak oil crisis: Alarms are sounding

Unread postby What_Went_Wrong » Thu 17 May 2007, 20:50:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', 'A')ll you non-doomers can now kiss my ass.

[smilie=bootyshake.gif]


How are things in the greater Bay Area?


Yes, what's up? The last two emoticons Matt uses are one that represents him bending over and the next was a tube of K-Y Jelly.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', '[')smilie=ky.gif]


Coincidence?


Might well be a hint towards what Matt will accept as currency in the crash :?
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Re: The peak oil crisis: Alarms are sounding

Unread postby Lore » Thu 17 May 2007, 20:54:53

Here's the problem, your all going to turn into Matt, if you keep this up. He has been living this downer stuff far too long. Let his posts be a lesson on losing a grip.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
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