[threadbear]

Peta may be a bit fanatic, but I'm quite sure that given a 100 years of cultural evolution, when people can no longer afford the expensive process of clogging their arteries with animal fat, PETA will be viewed as heroic.

And BTW, the only way to get people to focus on this issue is to shock them out of their complacency. And let's get clear here. Peta is trying to draw attention, not so much to the bullet through the brain, small farm dispatch slaughter of livestock, as to the terrible lives of ongoing torture animals go through in agribusiness.

I have no personal problem eating meat of any kind if I know how the animal lived and died. But I don't touch beef and pork from the supermarket because it puts me, as a consumer, completely out of control, etchically and morally.

I have been eating chicken though, so I thank Ayoob for the post and reminder--am going to try to find a local small farmer and buy free range chickens directly.There's a legacy of pain and anguish beneath the saran wrap and you who are quite happy about purchasing cheap meat, do so at a great cost. Now you KNOW how bleak it is form animals going through this process, it is up to you to do what you can to quit supporting Tysons, Jimmy Dean and other corporate farmers. Buy locally, pay a little more, but do so with a clean conscience.

The kosher method of killing awakens deep rage in me. God help me if I ever witnessed it in person. I would go completely berserk and wouldn't be responsible for my actions, truly.

[PrairieMule]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SinisterBlueCat', 'w')ouldn't that be great though? It would be even better if everyone knew that was the program. Think of what a wonderful world this would be. Screw eternal damnation, not scary enough, but the idea that you are going to come back and be subjected to everything you pushed around in your previous life...now that has some power.

Maybe I should start a religion aroung this concept.

[ejacob3]

Along the lines of the PETA video, I would suggest an excellent book by Anthony Robbins (heir to the Baskin Robbins ice cream deal. He wrote a book called, "Diet for a New America."

Although we like to call PETA folks tree huggers and speak of them with nothing other than contempt and disdain, their arguments are very real.

I enjoy very much my carnivore ways, but I find it enlightening to consider another perspective. I cannot say that I disagree with them.

[PhilBiker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')eta may be a bit fanatic, but I'm quite sure that given a 100 years of cultural evolution, when people can no longer afford the expensive process of clogging their arteries with animal fat, PETA will be viewed as heroic.

[PhilBiker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ejacob3', 'A')lthough we like to call PETA folks tree huggers and speak of them with nothing other than contempt and disdain, their arguments are very real.

[SinisterBlueCat]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PhilBiker', 'a') bit fanatic"? Do you really know what PETA stands for? They believe that having pets is unethical. Yup, even if you take good care of your dog and feed it and take it to the vet you're an enemy to PETA. They want all pets to be freed. That's just part of their completely insane agenda.
.

[PrairieMule]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('foodnotlawns', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrairieMule', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SinisterBlueCat', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PhilBiker', 'P')ETA is a terrorist organization which should be avoided and/or ignored. The video Aaron linked to should be viewed by everyone who can, as it not only completely exposes PETA for the wacked-out nutjobs that they are, but it's quite entertaining as well!

[eric_b]

AH, the whole PETA thing. It's a very contentious issue.

My 2 cents on the entire thing...

I like meat. I like how it tastes and I run well on it, especially if I'm physically active.
My European ancestors probably ate meat on regular basis.

I also agree with PenUltimate and FuckPETA that plants are very much alive, and I don't think
killing and eating plants is any better (or worse) than killing animals. Everyday we are all
responsible for the deaths of millions of microbes just going about our business, and I don't
think, in the greater scheme of things, I amount to any more than the ameoba crawling around
on my nose. Taking a shower or just blowing your nose wipes out millions of little critters.

That said, I don't think factory farming is 'a good thing'. Just reading how these animals are
treated is most disheartening. It's not something I want to support. Also, it's not healthy -
for the animals, and for the people that eat them. In addition to all the BSE diseases which
have been amplified by feeding animals (like cattle) stuff they were never meant to eat (corn,
animal parts, etc). (Now these prion diseases are showing up in WILD deer populations, apparently
spread from farmed animals near by - this should be a concern to all people, especially hunters).
You are what you eat, and it's been found that 'free range' animals, and animals raised on
a decent diet, are healthier for you - The fat in free range grass fed beef is healthier (more
omega-3s) for example.

So I've started trying to buy (local) organic meats in the hopes the animals are treated better.
Yes it's more expensive (2-4x as much) but I've found you can taste the difference, and it's
often not subtle. Organic beef it very tasty, and the organic cream and half/half (local from
WI where I live) tastes dramatically richer than the cheap stuff. Ditto on the 'omega-3' eggs.

I don't have a problem with the graphic description of the cow being slaughtered. Sounds like
it had a good life and was treated well, it was put down humanely and nothing was wasted.
I see factory farming as a 'symptom' - a symptom of too many people and a symptom of the
fact economics has become the bottom line in our society. THat's the root cause of these
crazy factory farms where animals are concentrated to such a degree. To feed a bloated human
population with little awareness of where the things that support them come from. Also,
these factory farms are ideal breeding grounds for diseases, like H5N1.

So I think that a little more awareness and respect is needed when it comes to food. Whatever
you eat, just be aware that something had to loose its life to support you. That's how
this world works, life feeds on life.

THis reminds me of a book I read years ago that really made an impression on me. I believe
it was called 'Adrift' and it was the true story of a man who was sailing (solo) off the
coast of Africa and had his boat go down. He survived for over 70 days in a little liferaft,
drifting across the Atlantic where he was finally found in the Caribean. He survived getting
fresh water from a solar still, and eating whatever he could. He apparently had a little
entourage of fish which where hanging out in the shade under his liferaft. He called them
his 'doggies' and often would dip his hand in the water to brush them. There was a very
touching descripion of him spearing one of these fish with a spear made from a pocket knife.
It was a struggle for this weakened man to haul the fish into his boat and kill it. It was
not something he did lightly, even in his starving condition. He cried, but it was something
he had to do to survive, and he ate every last scrap of the fish.

Anyway, it was a great read and I recommend it. I think there needs to be more awareness
all around about things like food and energy.

Oh yeah, here's the amazon link for the book. I recommend it:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/034541 ... e&n=283155
http://www.youmeworks.com/adrift.html

[albuterol]

This is in response to Silverhair. You're right, they live in a fantasy land, the rest of the population. I live in the Northeast Kingdom of Vermont and butchering animals and milking them is a way of life up here. Man was made to eat meat no matter what that fuckedup org PETA has to say, at least for another thousand years or so. Most of the responces you are getting is from people who go to the store to buy what they need, they have never hunted a white tail or partridge or gone brook fishing for trout. These people rant and rave but take away their most basic needs and they are FUCKED! They have no idea how to bait a hook or hunt or plant a garden. So, Silverhair you are well prepared and the rest are fucked, don't worry about it!

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ejacob3', 'A')long the lines of the PETA video, I would suggest an excellent book by Anthony Robbins (heir to the Baskin Robbins ice cream deal. He wrote a book called, "Diet for a New America."

Although we like to call PETA folks tree huggers and speak of them with nothing other than contempt and disdain, their arguments are very real.

I enjoy very much my carnivore ways, but I find it enlightening to consider another perspective. I cannot say that I disagree with them.

[SinisterBlueCat]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('albuterol', 'T')his is in response to Silverhair. You're right, they live in a fantasy land, the rest of the population. I live in the Northeast Kingdom of Vermont and butchering animals and milking them is a way of life up here. Man was made to eat meat no matter what that fuckedup org PETA has to say, at least for another thousand years or so. Most of the responces you are getting is from people who go to the store to buy what they need, they have never hunted a white tail or partridge or gone brook fishing for trout. These people rant and rave but take away their most basic needs and they are FUCKED! They have no idea how to bait a hook or hunt or plant a garden. So, Silverhair you are well prepared and the rest are fucked, don't worry about it!

[threadbear]

Well put, Sinister. That sums it up beautifully and humanely.

[Itch]

I eat meat. All of it comes directly from the farmer, which I find cheaper than organic supermarket meat. The neat thing about buying directly from the farmer is that they'll give you discounts if you see them enough. They'll be even more generous if you befriend them and show a genuine interest in food. You might even have the option to barter for meat; you'll rarely have that option if you go the supermarket -- they don't care about you.

I'm glad the animal had a fun time eating fallen fruit in a tree orchard, and I appreciate the work that went into bringing it before me. I just wish that I didn't risk being evicted, arrested, or killed, for passing the leftovers of the pig to the microbes, otherwise I'd do so with a smile. I'm referring to compost toiletry, of course.

Oh, and speaking of pets. Pets as they are today are a public health nightmare waiting to happen. I'm sure you can imagine all the places that dogs and cats put their noses and mouths. Plenty of vectors, there. All it takes is a germ that will find those chains of transmission a viable way to propagate.

As far as ethical treatment is concerned with pets, there are some pets that go through total shittiness because of some loser who is willing to bring other things down to the level of their own misery. Keeping a single bird in a cage, in my opinion, is the equivalent of solitary confinement until death.

Also realize that many pets, especially the exotic ones, are killed in the capture process. Even more die while being transported and assimilated. So to say that the pet industry is awful is pretty accurate. And then there is the pet food industry. Jesus.

The most common reason I've heard for keeping animals around is because the owner wants to feel needed. Oh, really? Well go make some friends, you dull fuck.

[aldente]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Itch', 'I') eat meat.

[Petro]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'K')eeping a single bird in a cage, in my opinion, is the equivalent of solitary confinement until death.

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Petro', 'Y')our view is human--my bird's, or any (non-abused) bird's view based on behavioral example, is something quite different.

[Petro]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Petro', 'Y')our view is human--my bird's, or any (non-abused) bird's view based on behavioral example, is something quite different.

[SinisterBlueCat]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Petro', '
')That...we are the only cause of animal sufferage on this world. Please! Do you think the chicken reacts any differently by being chased through the underbruch by a fox for 20 minutes prior to having its neck squeezed shut over the course of several minutes than it would by having its beak cauterized? I doubt it. Perhaps PETA should go to Africa and through some fake blood on the Lions? Eating is a dirty business...those that eat meat should be thankful that there are people out there that are willing to do the dirty work to provide us with squeeky-clean, plastic wrapped, tidy roasts for our youngins.

[gnm]

Factory farming is bad for the animal AND bad for whomever eats the crummy meat toxin filled meat. Buying from small local and or organic/free range farms is a good solution.

As far as whether or not to eat animals...

Eyes forward = predator
Eyes to the side = prey.

-G

[PhilBiker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('albente', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Itch', 'I') eat meat.