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Impeach Obama 2014

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Re: Impeach Obama 2014

Postby Plantagenet » Sun 06 Jul 2014, 11:01:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'O')bama did us all a real disservice when he criticized the SCOTUS during the state of the union a couple of years ago. Citizens [sic should be "Corporations") United was a terrible ruling and paved the way for the Hobby Lobby ruling, basically saying corporations are people with the right to vote and freedom of religious expression as well - but it was wrong for the POTUS to disrespect the court, especially during the constitutionally required appearance in congress. Bad bad form.


Pops I'm very surprised. This is the first criticism of Obama I've ever seen you make. I made this very criticism of O at the time. Its gratifying to see you come around and agree, even though it took you years to see that Obama was wrong to do this.

Obama seems to take adverse Supreme Court rulings personally and gets very angry when they don't go his way. Reports say he is furious that the SCOTUS ruled his recess appts were unconstitutional by a 9-0 margin and he's equally pissed off by losing to hobby lobby. Meanwhile, the mess he created with his unconstitutional appointments must be sorted out as years of NLRB work and regulations done by the illegitimate appointees are now null and void and must all be sorted out and erased.
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Re: Impeach Obama 2014

Postby PrestonSturges » Sun 06 Jul 2014, 14:52:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')Obama seems to take adverse Supreme Court rulings personally and gets very angry when they don't go his way. Reports say he is furious that the SCOTUS ruled his recess appts were unconstitutional by a 9-0 margin and he's equally pissed off by losing to hobby lobby. Meanwhile, the mess he created with his unconstitutional appointments must be sorted out as years of NLRB work and regulations done by the illegitimate appointees are now null and void and must all be sorted out and erased.


Thanks for the breathless update from right wing candyland. You missed possible bonus points by not using "hilarious" and "terrified."

Harry Reid changed the filibuster rules (filibuster not being on the Constitution) so that recess appointments are largely a non-issue.

As Orwell said in 1984
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')Even the humblest Party member is expected to be competent, industrious, and even intelligent within narrow limits, but it is also necessary that he should be a credulous (gullible) and ignorant fanatic whose prevailing moods are fear, hatred, adulation, and orgiastic triumph.

This is why there are so many conspiracy nuts that comprise the anus of America's society - all they hear is news of "victory after victory." Every day they are told their enemies are being crushed and yet the GOP keeps losing. They can only explain that contradiction with conspiracy theories about stolen elections. And the problem for the GOP is that these people are losers in real life, so they are happy to wallow in failure.
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Re: Impeach Obama 2014

Postby Lore » Sun 06 Jul 2014, 15:43:19

True, I wish I had a quarter (inflation you know) for every time I still hear, after all these years by the deniers, that the theory of AGW is about to crash and burn.

Have you ever noticed that losers have a problem in general with authority? That is, unless it's some corn pone mash up of imposing their single minded beliefs. Then again, when you're wrong it's pretty easy to fall back on the excuses the other guy wasn't playing fair and it's all conspiracies against them.
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Re: Impeach Obama 2014

Postby Plantagenet » Sun 06 Jul 2014, 18:12:38

Polls now show that American consider Obama to be the worst president since WWII. Repubs would be crazy to impeach Obama now---those kinds of rotten poll numbers for Obama can only help the Republicans.

When it comes to mid-term elections, Obama is the gift that keeps on giving. Thanks to Obama, the Republicans won a huge victory in 2010 and retook the House. Now they've got a chance to win big again and even retake the Senate in 2014--all thanks to obama!

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Re: Impeach Obama 2014

Postby AgentR11 » Sun 06 Jul 2014, 18:29:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'T')his is why there are so many conspiracy nuts that comprise the anus of America's society - all they hear is news of "victory after victory." Every day they are told their enemies are being crushed and yet the GOP keeps losing. They can only explain that contradiction with conspiracy theories about stolen elections. And the problem for the GOP is that these people are losers in real life, so they are happy to wallow in failure.


DDRRDDRRRDR

I don't think "yet the GOP keeps losing" means what you think it means. Win/Loss looks pretty balanced to me.

That aside... if I have to pick, I'd take winning the House over winning the Presidency ANY day; and the Democrats, to their credit, held the house for a VERY long time before 1994. No matter how powerful our imperial presidency becomes; he can not write law without the consent of the House (and Senate too), period, full stop; while the House and Senate most assuredly can write law without the consent of the President.

I'm actually quite comfortable with a Democrat president and a Republican House and/or Senate. Though the sparks of outrage that occur with a full R spread can be entertaining, they kinda tire me out.

Its also nice that it was a Democrat Senate that got rid of that stupid filibuster on nominations rule. When an R does sit in the White House, they're be a lot of conservative judges that would like to retire in peace knowing their seats can be quickly filled by simple 50%+1 confirmation votes.
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Re: Impeach Obama 2014

Postby PrestonSturges » Mon 07 Jul 2014, 00:04:50

The GOP puts itself in an interesting position since they want to elect a president with no authority, just a decade after Bush the all powerful "Unitary Executive." I think the press would dance around that question. The obvious thing to do would be to get elected then invade some random country. Hey it worked last time.

The founding fathers were most concerned that Congress would seize control of the country. They were concerned the president would be too weak.
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Re: Impeach Obama 2014

Postby dinopello » Mon 07 Jul 2014, 12:51:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'R')epubs would be crazy to impeach Obama now


So, you are basically saying that impeachment is a certainty ?
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Re: Impeach Obama 2014

Postby Plantagenet » Mon 07 Jul 2014, 13:49:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'R')epubs would be crazy to impeach Obama now


So, you are basically saying that impeachment is a certainty ?


No--I'm saying the Repubs aren't going to impeach Obama.

If the Dems are crazy enough to impeach Obama then they can go ahead and do it, but don't expect any help from the Repubs. As Obama sinks lower and lower in the polls (polling recently ranked him the worst president since WWII) this HELPs the Repubs in the 2014 election.

Perhaps this is why the Dems are having this crazy fantasy about impeachment---they are dreaming it might help boost Obama's sagging poll numbers. :roll:
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Re: Impeach Obama 2014

Postby Lore » Mon 07 Jul 2014, 14:39:45

The problem with the analysis is that the Republican Congress ranks even lower then both the President and Democrat Congress.
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Re: Impeach Obama 2014

Postby Plantagenet » Mon 07 Jul 2014, 14:43:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'T')he GOP ... want to elect a president with no authority


????
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Re: Impeach Obama 2014

Postby Plantagenet » Mon 07 Jul 2014, 14:45:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '.').. the Republican Congress ranks even lower then both the President and Democrat Congress.


People don't vote for a Congress. People vote for their own Congresscritter. People tend to like their own Congresscritters.

Congress has had low poll ratings for decades, but incumbents generally get re-elected unless there is a big "change" election as occurred in 2010 when the public threw out the Ds and put the Rs in charge of the House. This time around there may be another "change" election if the public throws out the Ds in the Senate and puts the Rs in charge.

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Thanks to obama's unpopularity, 2014 may be another "change" election, with the Rs taking over the Senate.
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Re: Impeach Obama 2014

Postby Lore » Mon 07 Jul 2014, 14:53:52

Incumbent Presidents usually have low readings too. Over time they are viewed more positively. I mean after all George W came in second? Go figure, which is why most people are skeptical about the poll.
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Re: Impeach Obama 2014

Postby AgentR11 » Mon 07 Jul 2014, 15:39:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'T')he GOP puts itself in an interesting position since they want to elect a president with no authority, just a decade after Bush the all powerful "Unitary Executive." I think the press would dance around that question. The obvious thing to do would be to get elected then invade some random country. Hey it worked last time.


Really shouldn't lump everyone in with this take on things; I think a good portion of the GOP (not unlike the Democrats) wants a powerful president, when they hold the office, and a weak one when they don't. I'm kinda more sympathetic to the late Sen Byrd's appeals against the rise of an imperial presidency, regardless of who holds the office.
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Re: Impeach Obama 2014

Postby Lore » Mon 07 Jul 2014, 16:02:51

We've already gone through a period of the imperial presidencies of Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan.

I think Obama's problem is trying to work within a broken political system and make a government responsive to what's needed to be done. Any attempt to make things happen, even within the bounds of legal authority, looks like a power grab. Then again, both parties are only focusing on perception and pointing fingers since substance has been on vacation for several years now.
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Re: Impeach Obama 2014

Postby AgentR11 » Mon 07 Jul 2014, 16:58:08

Interesting that a Democrat partisan can't see his own presidents with imperial tendencies.
addenda... My take is that Carter was the only recent president without such.
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Re: Impeach Obama 2014

Postby Lore » Mon 07 Jul 2014, 19:52:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'I')nteresting that a Democrat partisan can't see his own presidents with imperial tendencies.
addenda... My take is that Carter was the only recent president without such.

Wrong assumption, I'm not a Democrat, never have been. I'm merely defending a position where no wrong has been proven, or for that matter, will be.

Contrary to Nixon and Reagan which both ruled and presided over a staff that stepped out over the line.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he presidencies of Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan were particularly described as surrounded by "courts", where junior staffers acted on occasions in contravention of executive orders or Acts of Congress. The activities of some Nixon staffers during the Watergate affair are often held up as an example. Under Reagan (1981–1989) the role of Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North, USMC, in the facilitation of funding to the Contras in Nicaragua, in explicit contravention of a United States Congressional ban, has been highlighted as an example of a "junior courtier's" ability to act, based on his position as a member of a large White House staff. Howard Baker, who served as Reagan's last Chief of Staff, was critical of the growth, complexity and apparent unanswerability of the presidential "court".

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Presidency
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Re: Impeach Obama 2014

Postby Pops » Tue 08 Jul 2014, 09:50:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'I')nteresting that a Democrat partisan can't see his own presidents with imperial tendencies.

I think it is no surprise that as partisanship increases, the power of the presidency increases. Both wings of US politics are authoritarian and a strong executive is fine with them as long as it is Their executive, so short sightedness prevails.

Unfortunately, the things that actually matter; civil rights, right to assemble and freedom of speech, privacy, religious freedom, etc, etc are equally under assault from both the right and left. The see-saw attack continues with alternating presidents and actual freedom ratchets down with each succeeding attack.

Why would the right want to impeach Obama for an actual infringement - say unilaterally depriving a US citizen of all constitutional rights and executing them; when the folks back home believe that is a good thing. They agree that the POTUS should be that powerful just not a D.

The current problem isn't that Obama is too powerful, it's that a Democrat is that powerful. So they attack him rather than the office and they do it in a place where they are bound to have the support of the base. So they hit two birds with one stone, the evil IRS, or Clinton Benghazi - or the "deserter" trade. Just like Gingrich the adulterer impeaching Clinton for adultery, the plot plays in Peoria.

Why would Democrats back a political stunt?
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Re: Impeach Obama 2014

Postby Timo » Tue 08 Jul 2014, 10:39:20

It would be awfully revealing on the shallowness of the Republicans if they impeach two consecutive Democratic presidents. Obama isn't doing anything that W didn't do. The only difference is that W had the Republican's blessing before he did anything. Obama is getting business done in spite of Republican obstruction. Since 2010, 9.1 million jobs created. Unemployment down 4%. Government spending is continuing to come down. The only thing Republicans have left to criticize is that fact that things are getting modestly better despite their best efforts to make them worse. Impeachment is the only tool they have left to make any headlines. It's a distraction from things actually turning around. God forbid they actually drop their obstruction and do something positive for the country by addressing actual policy! Their strategy for the past several decades has been to create problems with irresponsible policy. Let those problems metasticize. Get a Democrat in power. And then blame them for everything going wrong, thus putting them back in power after the Dems dig everyone out of the hole the Repugs dug the last time they were in power. Childish antics! Simple minds! Aspire to breed ignorance among the masses with Faux News. Stoke their anger. Call for vengence! Launch a jihad against democracy! If not our way, then IMPEACH! IMPEACH!
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Re: Impeach Obama 2014

Postby Plantagenet » Tue 08 Jul 2014, 11:49:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', 'I')t would be awfully revealing on the shallowness of the Republicans if they impeach ...Obama


It's awfully revealing on the shallowness of Democrats that they are fantasizing about impeaching Obama when there is no impeachment of Obama.

Face facts---there is no impeachment. Yes Obama is tired out and burned out---he's become the lamest of lame ducks. He mostly spends his time golfing, fundraising and fulminating. But no he doesn't need to be impeached ---- he needs to go to the retirement home for tired out oldsters. :roll:
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Re: Impeach Obama 2014

Postby Timo » Tue 08 Jul 2014, 12:37:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', 'I')t would be awfully revealing on the shallowness of the Republicans if they impeach ...Obama


It's awfully revealing on the shallowness of Democrats that they are fantasizing about impeaching Obama when there is no impeachment of Obama.

Face facts---there is no impeachment. Yes Obama is tired out and burned out---he's become the lamest of lame ducks. He mostly spends his time golfing, fundraising and fulminating. But no he doesn't need to be impeached ---- he needs to go to the retirement home for tired out oldsters. :roll:

Or, he should follow his predecessor and go off on (yet) another vacation down to his ranch to recoup from all the hard work of being president. How much time off from work did W spend down on his ranch? Was there any cry for his impeachment then, or even any criticism from those now launching criticisms at Obama?

But, we needn't worry too much. After all, Romney was projected to beat Obama, and that turned out really well for Republicans. Republicans are again forecasting gaining control of the Senate this time around. We'll see. Meanwhile, Republican Governors up for reelection are all down big-time in their races, and Democratic candidates are even besting a number of Republicans in the Senate races. Dems have more reason to turn out than Repubs this time around. Repubs are on a losing streak on all of their chosen causes. Hobby Lobby is their only recent cause for celebration, and that elevates corporate religious liberties higher than personal civil liberties, which is a direct violation of the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment. Women's health has now been relegated to a level lower than men's, and certainly lower than the religious fantasies of their employers. That victory will be short-lived.
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