[toolpush]

Lore,

I am not judging on which side is right or wrong, just commenting on the way the facts of the case are coming out. It certainly appears to me the IRS is trying damn hard to stop things coming out, to the point I believe they are in contempt of court on some case that is currently underway. So things are being made up on the run.
We must surely agree the Republicans will not give up on this, I watched from a far how they went after Clinton, while the whole world wondered what was the big problem. But whether the IRS is guilty or not of anything, they are certainly putting on their best show as if they are guilty as sin.
i will leave this discussion for now as it is way past my bed time for where I am, so I will say good night and good luck if you are trying the change the direction of peoples political opinions in the States, because from what I see most people are extremely polarized over there.

[Plantagenet]

It would be nice to see an independent investigator look into the IRS mess. There is clearly some kind of coverup going on over the lost emails.

[Pops]

You hit on the key TP. The extreme polarization is the problem, when outrageousness is the theme of the day, how does one take such a mundane claim seriously?

I'm pretty far left for an American and I can find lots of what I think are serious criticisms of Obama, in fact lots that I'd have common ground with those on the conservative end of the spectrum. The problem we find ourselves in is that of the boy who cried wolf. Take Plant for example, I don't know what he just posted verbatim, I have him on ignore, but I know what he just posted, if that makes sense. Obama has been accused of every imaginable crime and perversion and blamed for everything from corrupting Eve to the crucifiction to the holocaust. To the point that now the crazy-noise level is so high so he could actually pull a huge Watergate and no one would pay the least bit of attention.

Let's say that Obama decided that he had the power to kill a US citizen without the benefit of, well, the benefit of anything, just because he could. Wouldn't that be serious? Yet it gets only passing notice.


We've become a comic/tragic farce. Except it doesn't make me laugh, it sorta makes my belly queasy
.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'T')ake Plant for example, I don't know what he just posted verbatim, I have him on ignore, but I know what he just posted, if that makes sense. Obama has been accused of every imaginable crime and perversion and blamed for everything from corrupting Eve to the crucifiction to the holocaust. To the point that now the crazy-noise level is so high so he could actually pull a huge Watergate and no one would pay the least bit of attention.

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('toolpush', '.').... has the same feel as tricky Dickey back in the seventies. The only thing different is that it is so amateurish it is laughable, but the only reason all these computers could crash so conveniently is that they contained information leading to much higher places. .

[PrestonSturges]

Hopefully in the next two years we will see the 6,000 page report on kidnapping and torture. It's been done for a while but the various agencies have to sign off on it.

That's not Obama BTW, that was Bush.

[PrestonSturges]

Quick reminder about the Bush years

Bush scandals sent about 20 people to prison, 4 from the White House. Remember when the CIA practically collapsed after 9-11 because of Bush appointees were taking bribes? Of course not, GOP scandals get kid glove treatment.

Use of kidnapping, rendition to secret prisons, torture.
US Attorneys General fired for not being political enough
Patient neglect at Walter Reed
Scooter Libby outs CIA agent Valery Plame
No bid contracts in Iraq for Haliburton and Blackwater that wasted billions and endanger soldiers
Random thrill-kill murders of Iraqi civilians by US government contractors and lots of rape
Hurricane Katrina
Ignored the "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US" briefings that warned about 9-11 attacks
Jack Abramoff goes to prison for bribing Republicans
Republican Duke Cunningham goes to federal prison for taking defense contractor bribes (money and prosttitutes)
CIA chief Brent Wilkes hires known crook Dusty Foggo as #3. Foggo and Wilkes resign when the FBI raids Foggo's homne and office.
Bush nominates Giuliani's drinking buddy Bernard Kerik to head Homeland Security, but Kouric withdraws nomination and goes to federal prison for bribery instead.
Mark Foley, chairman of the House Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children, resigned over the House page scandal: sending sexually explicit messages to pages.
Coverups in friendly fire death of Pat Tillman
Dubai ports deal put US port security in hands of middle-easterners
Presidential adviser Claude Allen caught stealing thousands of dollars in store merchandise
"Jeff Gannon" a male prostitute gets White Press passes under a false name and gives Bush softball questions
Leandro Aragoncillo naturalized Filipino-American in Cheney’s office (previously Gore’s) accused of spying for the Philippines and France, pled guilty, sentenced to 10 years
AIPAC espionage scandal; former DOD employee Lawrence Franklin pled guilty to passing information on Iran to Israel through two AIPAC employees
Monica "Loyalty oaths" Goodling used political considerations in violation of federal law and DOJ rules departmental policy in hiring decisions in a wide range of non-political career positions.
Mineral Management Service (MMS) employees getting prostitutes, drugs, and bribes from oil and gas companies.

And of course.....

About a dozen attacks on US embassies that nobody called "scandals."

And

Lying us into the Iraq war

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '
')Unfolds to what? First, you have to prove that the records exist and hiding them was a deliberate coverup. So far, all you have is supposition with the likelihood of going nowhere as with all the other conspiracies. Then you have to tie this somehow to the upper levels of the administration. It's nothing more than a right wing circle jerk.

It's a complete diversion to keep the public's mind off the do nothing Congress. As if this hoopla represents the most important problem currently facing the country.

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '
')Lore I am surprised at your naivete towards this. The records are supposed to be kept by law. The fact that they are missing or incomplete is proof enough of at least incompetence and most likely wrong doing. Records that show proper conduct usually last forever. Only the ones that might prove someone in a high station's guilt get unfortunately lost.
You are looking at a strange earring in your bed linens and believe your husband has no idea how it got there.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '
')Unfolds to what? First, you have to prove that the records exist and hiding them was a deliberate coverup. So far, all you have is supposition with the likelihood of going nowhere as with all the other conspiracies. Then you have to tie this somehow to the upper levels of the administration. It's nothing more than a right wing circle jerk.

It's a complete diversion to keep the public's mind off the do nothing Congress. As if this hoopla represents the most important problem currently facing the country.

[PrestonSturges]

The House has only been "working" about 120 days a year. With impeachment, they will stop showing up at all.

The general reaction of commentators to impeachment has been "Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!"

Impeachment will probably be the biggest favor the GOP can do for the Dems in 2016.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'L')ike Fast and Furious, Benghazi.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'I')t would be nice to see an independent investigator look into the IRS mess. There is clearly some kind of coverup going on over the lost emails.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'I') guess it must seem just like Watergate to people who have no idea what Watergate was.

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')I would think any objective person should think that's pretty darned messed up: US gov SELLING the weapons to the cartels and all this crime and murders that were done with these weapons.

It would be like police distributing crack cocaine so they can track drug dealers. Same thing. Nobody sees how messed up that is? *scratches head*

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'I') guess it must seem just like Watergate to people who have no idea what Watergate was.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'W')ell I worked for a federal contractor recently and the amount of disk space for our emails was absurdly low - like we could only save a couple weeks worth of email. It was weird and backwards and a constant source of aggravation, but it's not a made up thing either. Was it a "conspiracy?" No it was life in one of those companies where people hang Dilbert cartoons all over the place.

[PrestonSturges]

We had IT procurement and pricing rules that had been written 10 years before. On one NIH contract we could not offer terrabyte storage through the IT department because the costs were insane, so we bought some external drives for a couple hundred bucks. And you know what? They got lost because they were being stored with their original boxes and some thief thought "Hey that'll sell real fast on eBay with the original packaging!"

[Synapsid]

PrestonSturges,

All right, now you've come perilously close to going TOO FAR. Dilbert is one of my few remaining contacts with a sane world--go easy on Dilbert.

Or, as Stalin would have said, Dilberta ne trogat'.

[PrestonSturges]

You know there's problems when a company is practically wallpapered in Dilbert cartoons!

Lost data? Amazing stuff has been lost, including original moon landing films, stuff that belongs in the Smithsonian really. Canada just destroyed most of its climate records because conservatives. There are services that will store data as DVDs in old missile silos etc for the really important stuff.