[jbeckton]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SpringCreekFarm', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jbeckton', 'T')he point was that if TSHTF, it will be much easier to find wood and coal than a guy to fix or replace your solar system.

[sittinguy]

This is nothing new. 1 in 5 use credit for alot of things. This is why the credit problem is far from over, hell its just the begining. How stupid are some of these people. Winter comes every year! save some money!! you Idiots. Winter is not a surprise.

[SpringCreekFarm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jbeckton', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SpringCreekFarm', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jbeckton', 'T')he point was that if TSHTF, it will be much easier to find wood and coal than a guy to fix or replace your solar system.

[jbeckton]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SpringCreekFarm', '
')I was under the impression we were talking about service, not the actual building of them. My humble apologies.

[SpringCreekFarm]

I'm so glad I went back to burning wood when I moved to SCF. My grandfather had an oil furnace here to heat with because he was too old to bother with wood.

I heated with oil one winter and didn't like the heating bills. Now the prices have at least doubled. I put the system in myself and have saved thousands of dollars since.

The insurance devils made me take the oil tank out of the basement because they wanted no liability for a spill so I just never replaced it. I now use the fan of the old furnace to distribute the heat around the house.

However, I don't feel safe and energy independent because my woodlot is almost a friggin mile from the house and my chainsaw still runs on gas, but I'm better off than if I had to borrow to pay my heat. Mercy be to those that do.

[jbeckton]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SpringCreekFarm', '
')I heated with oil one winter and didn't like the heating bills. Now the prices have at least doubled. I put the system in myself and have saved thousands of dollars since.

[WisJim]

For comparing energy or fuel costs, a couple of websites:
This one allows you to plug in current costs and includes firewood, stove efficiency, etc:
http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.ph ... alculator/
This tells BTU content for 4 fuel types:
http://www.erpud.com/comparison.htm
This one compares a few fuel types using Federal Energy costs:
http://www.npga.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=914

Insulation trumps them all.

And, having more than 25 years experience with both wind generated electricity and PVs, my answer is to learn what is necessary so you can install and maintain your system yourself, and get the best quality equipment available. My wind machine may well outlast my PVs (it is probably 60 years old or more, now), but it requires regular maintenance. The PVs can almost be ignored.

[topcat]

Very cool calculator site!

We helped to skew the numbers as we bought our LP on credit, and then paid off the CC.

[SpringCreekFarm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jbeckton', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SpringCreekFarm', '
')I heated with oil one winter and didn't like the heating bills. Now the prices have at least doubled. I put the system in myself and have saved thousands of dollars since.

[thor]

When do people realise that houses require insulation, slashing the bill in half or a reduction up to two thirds.

Using 20 cm of PIR insulation panels between the inner and outer wall, roof, and PIR/PUR spray foam underneath the floor would serious cut heating. Together with high heat resistant double or triple glazing you could heat your home with a couple of candles.

[Armageddon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sittinguy', 'T')his is nothing new. 1 in 5 use credit for alot of things. This is why the credit problem is far from over, hell its just the begining. How stupid are some of these people. Winter comes every year! save some money!! you Idiots. Winter is not a surprise.

[Revi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jbeckton', '
')
Sorry, I can build a wind mill and generator out of junkyard parts, but with a solar panel, you are not going to find suitable parts just lying around.

I bet you could build a wind generator with a little know-how as well, but a solar panel?

Nope.

[Revi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SpringCreekFarm', '
')
However, I don't feel safe and energy independent because my woodlot is almost a friggin mile from the house and my chainsaw still runs on gas, but I'm better off than if I had to borrow to pay my heat. Mercy be to those that do.

[sciencegirl]

I just want to point out that when TSHTF wood may not be available to everyone. I live in a city of over 1 million people. If their was no electricity in winter, every man, woman and child would be out looking for stuff to burn. Solar does not last forever but it still does last a long time.

And - their is always time to watch DVD's, especially when you have a years worth of food stored away, and enough silver for minor expenses. Why on earth would I want to leave home.

[retiredguy]

One needs a fireplace or wood stove in which to burn wood for heat. Very few of my neighbors have such. Installing a wood stove on the cheap is a very dangerous thing to do.

Plus one needs to be able to harvest, haul and split said wood. Not everyone can or would be able to do that. Just having some woods nearby does not necessarily mean one has a ready source. Is the woods near a road? Even if it is, the wood must be moved from where the tree is cut to the road. Do you have a skidsteer? A horse? Or are you planning to haul the wood one armload at a time? A cord of wood is not light and not very portable.

Do you know how to fell a tree? Logging is the second most dangerous occupation in this country. For good reason. I've dropped many trees but am always afraid while doing so.

I had 11 full cords harvested for use this year and next on November 1. That represents a significant investment in time and labor. Can't see many people following this path.

[gnm]

I've felled hundreds of trees. I'm not scared and I can drop em pretty much any where I want (even uphill) - that being said I always make sure I have a clear path to run if need be.

11 cords? Good grief! I think you might want to follow the "insulate first, then heat" advice.

My house is not all that great (I am still working on insulating) and we use about a cord and a half /winter.

Its really not that hard to haul a cord by hand. One person could haul it 1/4 mile in a day.

But its not like you short cut and split it right where you fell it - You cut it into 4 foot pieces or so and haul it to your woodshed for shortcut and split.

Definitely agree on installing a woodstove - thats not something you want to do half-assed...

-G

[Narz]

It's too bad the world isn't cooling instead of warming. I'd simply move someplace nice and warm year round and avoid this whole issue.

[frankthetank]

A cord of wood weighs over 2000lbs.

[jbeckton]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sciencegirl', 'I') just want to point out that when TSHTF wood may not be available to everyone. I live in a city of over 1 million people. If their was no electricity in winter, every man, woman and child would be out looking for stuff to burn. Solar does not last forever but it still does last a long time.

[retiredguy]

Fear is your friend when doing anything dangerous.

My house is as well insulated as an old house can be. Been working on it for 30 years. Wisconsin gets very cold in the winter and winters here are six months long. Ergo lots of wood.

I'll second what jbeckton posted. One of my neighbors has already informed me that, if the TSHTF, his family is going to come to live with me rather than let his family freeze. Since he is in his thirties, in good shape, and ex-military, I have no problem with that.