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THE Heating Oil Thread (merged)

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.
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Re: Just ran out of Heating Fuel-oil in the house.

Postby Cashmere » Tue 29 Apr 2008, 19:32:30

Tell her to put on a thick shawl.

Paying for the mistakes of her childhood.
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Re: Just ran out of Heating Fuel-oil in the house.

Postby PeakOiler » Tue 29 Apr 2008, 20:06:07

Ouch you guys! Stop using fuel oil! Time to do some fuel-switching, eh? Be sure to plant more trees than you burn please.

Last winter I used almost the amount of oak wood that would fill my F-150's bed in my Regency Earthstove. The wood was given to me from a friend that was bringing down a tree that had been dead for over two years.

I also used central electric heat with the thermostat set at about 62-65F with some room's vents closed off. My highest electric bill this last winter was $99.15 for 929 kW-hrs. in February.

I sure am glad I don't use fuel oil and live in a warm climate.
:P
There’s a strange irony related to this subject [oil and gas extraction] that the better you do the job at exploiting this oil and gas, the sooner it is gone.

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Re: Just ran out of Heating Fuel-oil in the house.

Postby allenwrench » Tue 29 Apr 2008, 20:09:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'M')y Sister has one of those leaky old country farm houses. She was trying to squeak by till next winter. Well, with this lovey spring weather (freezing at night still) she ran the tank dry yesterday.
Minimum fuel oil purchase:
125 gal was............ drum roll........................:

What is the $$ required to heat for an average winter with oil?
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Re: Just ran out of Heating Fuel-oil in the house.

Postby Tyler_JC » Tue 29 Apr 2008, 21:06:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('allenwrench', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'M')y Sister has one of those leaky old country farm houses. She was trying to squeak by till next winter. Well, with this lovey spring weather (freezing at night still) she ran the tank dry yesterday.

Minimum fuel oil purchase:

125 gal was............ drum roll........................

:



What is the $$ required to heat for an average winter with oil?


It can cost an astronomical amount of money.

I think my dad paid around $3,000 this past winter to heat his house. Heating oil prices are terrifying and getting worse. I'm trying to convince him to switch to a wood pellet stove but so far, no luck.

His heating bill in the winter is greater than his home equity loan (no mortgage at this point).
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Re: Just ran out of Heating Fuel-oil in the house.

Postby vision-master » Tue 29 Apr 2008, 21:23:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('allenwrench', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'M')y Sister has one of those leaky old country farm houses. She was trying to squeak by till next winter. Well, with this lovey spring weather (freezing at night still) she ran the tank dry yesterday.

Minimum fuel oil purchase:

125 gal was............ drum roll........................




:



What is the $$ required to heat for an average winter with oil?


Sounds like she spent over $1,500 with a cold house running a couple of ele space heaters too.
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Re: Just ran out of Heating Fuel-oil in the house.

Postby smallpoxgirl » Tue 29 Apr 2008, 21:24:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'S')ounds like she spent over $1,500 with a cold house running a couple of ele space heaters too.


That'd buy several really nice sweaters.
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The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
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Re: Just ran out of Heating Fuel-oil in the house.

Postby hironegro » Tue 29 Apr 2008, 23:24:32

tell her to wear a jacket
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Re: Just ran out of Heating Fuel-oil in the house.

Postby Tyler_JC » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 00:59:31

$1,500 could buy a nice fur coat.

Or the more peak oil friendly version...a gun and a tanning kit. 8)
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Re: Just ran out of Heating Fuel-oil in the house.

Postby cube » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 10:08:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JPL', '.')...
Holy hell that is cheap - here in NW France the going rate is EUR 110 per cord - that was the last load we bought, up from about EUR 100 last year.
I didn't know people burned wood for heat in France.
I thought with all those nuclear power plants you had more electricity than you can shake a stick at. :oops:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'I') think my dad paid around $3,000 this past winter to heat his house. Heating oil prices are terrifying and getting worse. I'm trying to convince him to switch to a wood pellet stove but so far, no luck.
I used to live in a really small studio in Seattle.
They haves lots of cheap electricity up there thanks to all the hydroelectric damns.
You know the ones that the environmentalists keep on wanting to tear down to save the salmon.
$3,000 would of paid my energy bill for 20 years. *seriously*
If I had to choose between saving the salmon or electricity, I'll take the energy. :roll:
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Re: Just ran out of Heating Fuel-oil in the house.

Postby MarkJ » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 10:46:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('allenwrench', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'M')y Sister has one of those leaky old country farm houses. She was trying to squeak by till next winter. Well, with this lovey spring weather (freezing at night still) she ran the tank dry yesterday.

Minimum fuel oil purchase:

125 gal was............ drum roll........................




:



What is the $$ required to heat for an average winter with oil?


Averages in my area are probably around 700 to 1,000 plus gallons per year.

Depends on the size of the home, insulation, weatherization, windows, thermostat setting, type of system, system design, oversizing, zoning, control strategies, maintenance, burner setup etc. We have mostly hydronic system in parts of the Northeast, so people also produce hot water with the tankless coil in their boiler or with an indirect water heater. All other factors being equal, there's a big difference in fuel consumption between customers with older oversized boilers and modern boilers like Energy Kinetics System 2000s or modern Three Pass Horizontal boilers with outdoor reset controls.

Many of our heating oil, kerosene and propane customers have poorly insulated, poorly weatherized homes with old windows and ancient, grossly inefficient, grossly oversized, poorly designed, poorly maintained, poorly tuned heating systems.

I produce heat and hot water for two or three of my homes with less fuel than some customers burn heating a single home since my homes are super insulated and they have properly sized, properly zoned, properly tuned, well designed oil fired hydronic radiant heating systems with indirect water heaters. I also use outdoor reset controls with my three pass horizontal boilers since even a properly sized heating system is effectively oversized 99 percent of the heating season.

We've had a record amount of run-outs, freeze-ups, pump-primes, emergency calls, plugged filters/lines/nozzles,strainers and system failures since people are neglecting their furnaces, boilers and water heaters, plus they're letting their tanks run dry. People using wood/pellet/coal stoves are also failing to insulate and/or provide heat to pipes in basements, crawlspaces etc, so their pipes are freezing when not using their primary heating systems. We've also had an increase in fires and CO related calls due to neglect, owners servicing their own equipment and the use of wood stoves as well as kerosene, electric and propane space heaters.
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Re: Just ran out of Heating Fuel-oil in the house.

Postby vision-master » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 10:54:45

Your sounding like a furance man..........

FYI: I was a Chief Engineer (boiler operator/ building operator).

Nice jobs with pretty good pay. Nothing great, but nice easy jobs anyways. :razz:

Still have a current license.
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Re: Just ran out of Heating Fuel-oil in the house.

Postby MarkJ » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 12:42:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'Y')our sounding like a furance man..........

FYI: I was a Chief Engineer (boiler operator/ building operator).

Nice jobs with pretty good pay. Nothing great, but nice easy jobs anyways. :razz:

Still have a current license.


Yeah, those jobs don't pay the greatest, but the pay is better than average and the work is easy. When my friend worked a similar job I was making more on 1 day hydronic or steam boiler installations than he made in two weeks.

There aren't a lot of highly skilled, knowledgeable hydronics installers, system designers and elite service techs in the business these days.
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Re: Just ran out of Heating Fuel-oil in the house.

Postby Pops » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 13:04:41

We use propane when the wood stove can't quite keep up and for cooking and water.

We are pretty low but didn't have the cash a month or 2 ago during the dip in price to fill up when Pup said to get ready.

We pay around $.40 over wholesale...
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Re: Just ran out of Heating Fuel-oil in the house.

Postby JoeW » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 14:09:25

regarding the cost of fuel oil/hydronic heat, i know people in my area are using about 800 gallons of fuel oil a year, which would be about $3000/yr at current prices.

i believe our household consumed about six or seven hundred gallons even in the mildest of winters. 800 gallons is normal consumption. i saw a 4-burner electric boiler online somewhere that i thought might be a good replacement for the fuel-oil furnace...
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Re: Just ran out of Heating Fuel-oil in the house.

Postby vision-master » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 15:33:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MarkJ', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'Y')our sounding like a furance man..........

FYI: I was a Chief Engineer (boiler operator/ building operator).

Nice jobs with pretty good pay. Nothing great, but nice easy jobs anyways. :razz:

Still have a current license.


Yeah, those jobs don't pay the greatest, but the pay is better than average and the work is easy. When my friend worked a similar job I was making more on 1 day hydronic or steam boiler installations than he made in two weeks.

There aren't a lot of highly skilled, knowledgeable hydronics installers, system designers and elite service techs in the business these days.


I was a control systems EMS/ CMMS kind of guy.
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Re: Just ran out of Heating Fuel-oil in the house.

Postby misterno » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 21:34:27

I don't understand when people believes in PO and still insists on living in Vermont Maine or that sort of cold states. They know and are sure that fuel oil and gas price will skyrocket but they keep living in that cold weather and whining all the time.

Time to get out, hurry up man. Move to south.
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Re: Just ran out of Heating Fuel-oil in the house.

Postby Tyler_JC » Wed 30 Apr 2008, 23:09:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('misterno', 'I') don't understand when people believes in PO and still insists on living in Vermont Maine or that sort of cold states. They know and are sure that fuel oil and gas price will skyrocket but they keep living in that cold weather and whining all the time.

Time to get out, hurry up man. Move to south.


Maine and Vermont are heavily forested.

Many of the people there could switch to wood burning stoves to heat their homes and reduce their heating costs dramatically, particularly if they can cut their own wood.

Moreover, as the weaker links leave the state, there is more wood available for everyone else.

There's a logic to it. :)
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Re: Just ran out of Heating Fuel-oil in the house.

Postby cube » Thu 01 May 2008, 01:36:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('misterno', 'I') don't understand when people believes in PO and still insists on living in Vermont Maine or that sort of cold states. They know and are sure that fuel oil and gas price will skyrocket but they keep living in that cold weather and whining all the time.

Time to get out, hurry up man. Move to south.


Maine and Vermont are heavily forested.

Many of the people there could switch to wood burning stoves to heat their homes and reduce their heating costs dramatically, particularly if they can cut their own wood.

Moreover, as the weaker links leave the state, there is more wood available for everyone else.

There's a logic to it. :)
Another strategy would be to simply live in a smaller house. I never understood America's fixation for large houses. The extreme measures that people go through.
I'm on the west coast so I'm totally ignorant about heating oil. When I heard the price of $3,000 that blew me away.

No disrespect but my gut tells me your dad will be finding a "new living arrangement" when oil hits $300 / barrel.
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Re: Just ran out of Heating Fuel-oil in the house.

Postby yesplease » Thu 01 May 2008, 01:54:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'S')ounds like she spent over $1,500 with a cold house running a couple of ele space heaters too.


That'd buy several really nice sweaters.
Win! Worse comes to worse, 20-40F in the house isn't too bad if you're bundled up.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Professor Membrane', ' ')Not now son, I'm making ... TOAST!
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Re: Just ran out of Heating Fuel-oil in the house.

Postby Tyler_JC » Thu 01 May 2008, 04:46:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '
')
Another strategy would be to simply live in a smaller house. I never understood America's fixation for large houses. The extreme measures that people go through.
I'm on the west coast so I'm totally ignorant about heating oil. When I heard the price of $3,000 that blew me away.

No disrespect but my gut tells me your dad will be finding a "new living arrangement" when oil hits $300 / barrel.


I ran the numbers and $3,000 has to be an exaggeration.

I just can't understand how he could possibly be burning that much fuel. The house is only 2200 square feet and it's in eastern Massachusetts, not northern Vermont or the Article freaking Circle.

And then I read news articles like this one and I think it could be possible.

The surge in oil prices has made heating with natural gas significantly cheaper for the first time in many years. Under current gas rates and oil prices in Rhode Island, the average annual cost to heat with oil this winter will be $2,047 — 38-percent higher than the cost to heat with the equivalent amount of natural gas.

My dad is more wasteful than most when it comes to energy (despite my attempts to reform him) but bring his consumption down to normal levels and he'd still be shelling out $2,000 a winter.

Switching to natural gas wouldn't help much. $1,500 per year with natural gas isn't exactly cheap either.

I just don't understand how working class people can afford it. Or I guess they can't afford it. That's the problem. 8O
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