[sciencegirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')o you suppose that these 1 million people will go quietly into the night while you keep warm with your solar panel and battery watching DVD's?

[sciencegirl]

If worse comes to worse, I can always become a Mormon. They always have lots of food stored away for emergency. HA HA HA

[frankthetank]

I drove around a new subdivision (mostly $300K and up houses/new) yesterday trying to see if anyone heats with wood. My conclusion was a big NO! I saw no chimney pipe, nor did i see any wood stockpiled (by the new homes). Towards the back of this subdivision (whatever you want to call it, probably around 300 homes or more) is a few older homes that have been there since the '70's or earlier. The whole area is just a big/long valley (bowl). One of these older homes had a HUGE woodpile along with the telltale chimney pipe (wood burner).

Not sure if i would want to be in his position if all my neighbors have no heat and the temp is below zero!

If you have a basement, insulate an area and use the heat of the ground. You'll easily keep it above freezing even in the coldest of temps (the ground should be around 50F). Thats my thinking as of now.

TOD had a good writeup about wood heating...
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/3374

[retiredguy]

Good post, Frank.

I think the limiting factor in using wood for heat is the time, effort, and attention (fires need to be attended) it takes. And, of course, there is no savings if one has to buy wood.

Precisely why I opted not to install a pellet/corn stove.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sciencegirl', 'I') just want to point out that when TSHTF wood may not be available to everyone. I live in a city of over 1 million people. If their was no electricity in winter, every man, woman and child would be out looking for stuff to burn. Solar does not last forever but it still does last a long time.
....

[Twilight]

That's exactly my objection to domestic PV, cube, if things go badly wrong it may go the way of steel and copper these days.

[gnm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('retiredguy', 'I') think the limiting factor in using wood for heat is the time, effort, and attention (fires need to be attended) it takes. And, of course, there is no savings if one has to buy wood.

Precisely why I opted not to install a pellet/corn stove.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Twilight', 'T')hat's exactly my objection to domestic PV, cube, if things go badly wrong it may go the way of steel and copper these days.

[retiredguy]

gnm,

All I can say is that my 11 cords cost me less than $100. A much better deal than pellets, at least around here.

[sicophiliac]

Well we have had quite a few posts since I made my comment about an electric heater, my point being that all though its inefficient given that your converting heat to electricity, feeding it through a line and then converting it back to heat that electricity is still cheap, night time load on the grid is typically very low am I right? I mean there are plenty of options to produce electricity.. wind, solar, tidal..coal ect ect. Anyways my idea was if and when times get tough designate one very well insulated room for sleeping with a good electric heater in there. Several bunk beds with multiple people would add some body heat as well. Perhaps people could line the walls and the windows with heavy blankets or something and wear plenty of warm cloths to keep warm too. I mean come on.. the Eskimo's lived for thousands of years along the arctic circle.. early humans survived for tens of thousands of years in Europe.. during the ice age no less. Can it be that hard for people to find someways to keep warm in modern times? I am starting to think these spoiled cry babies want to sit around the house in their boxer shorts and a tank top drinking coffee when its 20 below zero outside.

[retiredguy]

Of course they want to sit around the house in their boxer shorts when its 20 below outside. Oil and gas have been absurdly cheap for a long time, so most people alive today are use to cranking up the thermostat when they are cold.

Yes it's going to be a rude awakening for many folks when cranking up the thermostat is no longer an option. I'd wager that many people aren't going to make the transition.

And, yes, spot heating with an electric heater is a good idea. My wood stove is located in my LR. Because the rest of the house is about 10 degrees cooler than the LR, we tend to spend most of our time in the LR. Not much of an inconvenience and it saves us well over $1,000 a year.

Plus a wood stove, like an electric space heater, provides a constant source of warmth.

[Frank]

You guys are all acting like there'll be a newspaper headline someday proclaiming "Peak Oil Is Here" and that'll be a sign for people to suddenly go crazy. There's a lot of evidence that we're peaking right now; it's not a single point-in-time but a fluctuating up-and-down scenario as older fields become newly profitable and others start declining. etc. etc. etc. It might be years before it's obvious.

The point is that it's never too late to plan and prepare. If you think you should improve insulation - do it now. If you want to start a garden - do it soon. If you're afraid that heating oil will become unavailable in your apartment building - start making plans to change your situation.

[WisJim]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('retiredguy', 'g')nm,

All I can say is that my 11 cords cost me less than $100. A much better deal than pellets, at least around here.

[thor]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sicophiliac', '.').. Anyways my idea was if and when times get tough designate one very well insulated room for sleeping with a good electric heater in there. Several bunk beds with multiple people would add some body heat as well. Perhaps people could line the walls and the windows with heavy blankets or something and wear plenty of warm cloths to keep warm too. I mean come on.. the Eskimo's lived for thousands of years along the arctic circle.. early humans survived for tens of thousands of years in Europe.. during the ice age no less.

[vision-master]

Yaranga.


Yaranga roof from the inside.


Yarangas always beautifully match the landscape.


Chukchi yaranga. In summer, you can pull up the sides for better ventilation. Dionisia Mt.


It would be difficult to heat up the entire yaranga in winter, so people sleep in polog - a little deerskin cabin inside the yaranga, very cozy and warm.

[cube]

To: WisJim

silly q?
The picture of the solar panels for your avatar pic:
Is that an actual picture of solar panels in your back yard?

[retiredguy]

WisJim,

Those 11 cords are full cords (128 cubic feet).

I harvest it myself. Through word of mouth, I've connected with two different parties that want trees removed from their property. I harvest mostly dead trees, standing and down.

I've also cleared fence lines for farmers in the area.

[WisJim]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '[')b]To: WisJim

silly q?
The picture of the solar panels for your avatar pic:
Is that an actual picture of solar panels in your back yard?

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WisJim', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '[')b]To: WisJim

silly q?
The picture of the solar panels for your avatar pic:
Is that an actual picture of solar panels in your back yard?

[MarkJames]

Our propane, fuel oil and kerosene customers have been using their credit cards to buy fuel for years. Many fuel companies offer pre-season pre-buy and price-capped fuel purchase programs, but many customers don't take advantage of it, or don't fill up their tanks in the off season when fuel is cheaper.

Plenty of people have older uninsulted, poorly insulated, poorly weatherized homes with old windows and inefficient, poorly designed, oversized heat and hot water systems. Their heat loss, fuel consumption and comfort levels are terrible, but they would rather give their money to fuel providers indefinitely rather than insulate, weatherize and replace their ancient heating systems. Beside wasting fuel, some of these customers spend a small fortune on constant repairs due to the fact that the equipment is older, not covered under warranties/service contracts and the systems are laboring constantly to keep up with the demand of the incredible heat-loss.

It's not always about the money either. People seem to have money for new vehicles, boats, digital cable, high speed internet, beer, cigarettes and lottery tickets, but then cry poverty when it it comes to buying fuel, insulating or replacing the heating equipment installed by my grandfather long before I was born.

Since so many people have been using kerosene, propane or electric space heaters, we've had a ton of pipe freezing calls since the customers aren't keeping their poorly insulated basements, crawlspaces and walls warm without running their primary heating system. The money they're spending on fuel, repairs and emergency service would be better spent on increasing the comfort and efficiency of their home and mechanical systems.