[pup55]

The average national credit card debt is something like $9000, according to various sources.

Why does it matter if they charge their heating oil, or charge a consumer item?

Either way, they have life expenses that exceed their income, i.e. they have not been living within their means.

[jbeckton]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pup55', 'T')he average national credit card debt is something like $9000, according to various sources.

Why does it matter if they charge their heating oil, or charge a consumer item?

Either way, they have life expenses that exceed their income, i.e. they have not been living within their means.

[sciencegirl]

Some Japanese people use a Kotatsu to keep warm in winter.

http://www.amychavez.addr.com/news/kotatsu/index.htm

Basically it is a table with a small heat source underneath, and then you put a blanket over the table so it traps the heat.

Might be a great way to save energy. Some day I want to build one, and power it with a 100 watt car heater running off of a solar panel. When I get the money that is.

[jbeckton]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sciencegirl', 'S')ome Japanese people use a Kotatsu to keep warm in winter.

http://www.amychavez.addr.com/news/kotatsu/index.htm

Basically it is a table with a small heat source underneath, and then you put a blanket over the table so it traps the heat.

Might be a great way to save energy. Some day I want to build one, and power it with a 100 watt car heater running off of a solar panel. When I get the money that is.

[Revi]

A friend has to sell his house to pay his oil bill. He has a really low mortgage, and doesn't spend much money, but he still has too many bills to pay. It's tough around here.

[jbeckton]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'A') friend has to sell his house to pay his oil bill. He has a really low mortgage, and doesn't spend much money, but he still has too many bills to pay. It's tough around here.

[sciencegirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', 'Don't they sleep under there?

Solar ain't gonna help you unless you buy expensive batteries or start sleeping during the day.')

They could sleep there, and they could use it during the day as well. The original tables were heated by a tiny coal furnace. When I build one, I want it to have multiple heat sources, like solar and wood/coal.

[jbeckton]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sciencegirl', '[')code]Don't they sleep under there?

Solar ain't gonna help you unless you buy expensive batteries or start sleeping during the day.[/code]

They could sleep there, and they could use it during the day as well. The original tables were heated by a tiny coal furnace. When I build one, I want it to have multiple heat sources, like solar and wood/coal.

[sciencegirl]

Yes I could buy a $25 heater, but when the shit hits the fan, and I no longer have electricity, that is when my table can keep me warm. I live in Northern Canada so it gets cold in winter and it can kill you if your not careful. Besides, it takes more energy to heat a room then it does to heat the space under a table.

[jbeckton]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sciencegirl', 'Y')es I could buy a $25 heater, but when the shit hits the fan, and I no longer have electricity, that is when my table can keep me warm. I live in Northern Canada so it gets cold in winter and it can kill you if your not careful. Besides, it takes more energy to heat a room then it does to heat the space under a table.

[jbeckton]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sciencegirl', 'Y')es I could buy a $25 heater, but when the shit hits the fan, and I no longer have electricity, that is when my table can keep me warm. I live in Northern Canada so it gets cold in winter and it can kill you if your not careful. Besides, it takes more energy to heat a room then it does to heat the space under a table.

[retiredguy]

A 70% efficient wood stove that burns 90% clean trumps a fireplace.

My little Jotul 100 provides 90% of my heat and its cold here. Yes, the extreme ends of the house are a bit chilly, but like Jbeckton says, just put on a flannel shirt and some warm footwear.

Since the stove uses no electricity, I still stay warm during power outages.

[sciencegirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hat good is a solar powered heater when its coldest when the sun is not out?

A solar heater isn't going to save you in Northern Canada, a fireplace will

[jbeckton]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sciencegirl', '
')The table I want to build will have a double heat source. It would have a tiny wood/coal furnace.

[3rensho]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jbeckton', '
')Don't they sleep under there?

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jbeckton', 'T')hat is basically a fireplace in a small area.

[jbeckton]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jbeckton', 'T')hat is basically a fireplace in a small area.

[kpeavey]

Its a sad state of affairs when 20% of the population is so dependent on credit and infrastructure for such a basic necessity as space heating.

The old ways of looking out for yourself have gone the way of the dinosaur. What will they do when credit is unavailable? When the grid fails? When energy sources are insufficient to meet the demand of the population? When a sudden storm comes through with record cold?

Many will shiver, double up their housing, pay whatever the bill is if they can find a means to pay it, worrying about other problems later. They will complain to or about the government, demanding more assistance and handouts. They will bring the gas grill inside. Start fires in fireplaces not used for years, burning whatever material they can find. In a nutshell, they will panic due to a failure to plan and take extreme measures in a short period to solve a temporary problem.

A critical feature that has been lost to industrialization is independent thought. Most people do not think for themselves. This prevents them from taking the action needed to keep them out of trouble. Much of the activity in the above paragraph is occurring now. Will they learn from it? Some will, but not as many as you'd think. Next winter will see more of this activity. They just won't learn.

Now that they have already failed to make the investment of time, energy and money, and failed to make the lifestyle changes needed to keep their butts warm, they borrow from their future income to keep their butts warm for now. This shortsightedness will creep up behind them eventually. I pity their ignorance but have no sympathy for their plight.

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jbeckton', 'T')he point was that if TSHTF, it will be much easier to find wood and coal than a guy to fix or replace your solar system.

[SpringCreekFarm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jbeckton', 'T')he point was that if TSHTF, it will be much easier to find wood and coal than a guy to fix or replace your solar system.