[FoxV]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('highlander', 'B')ite the bullet and apply nitrogen, or thin your herd. Just keep spreading the manure around and in a few years, you should start getting real soil again!

[Dreamtwister]

Learn to compost. According to the EPA, the average household produces 20.8 cubic yards of waste annually. 26% of that could be compost. That works out to roughly three quarters of a ton of organic fertilizer. Add in cattle waste and you should have *plenty* to cover 105 acres, and it won't cost you a dime in materials.

Just set aside an acre or two and set up a few windrows 3' high, 3' wide and as long as you can make them. Start a new row every year. You probably only need 2-3 rows, but the more the merrier.

Before you switch though, do a pH test. Years of chemical fertilizer use have probably left your soil too acidic to be productive with organic. You may have to add some calcium carbonate to correct the acidity. Normally, around 5lb / 100'^2 is sufficient. You're looking for a soil pH in the following ranges:

Fescue, weeping lovegrass 4.5-7.0
Sorghum, sudan, wheat 5.5-7.0
Bermudagrass 5.7-7.0
Barley 6.5-7.0

If you switch your entire pasture over at the same time, you will likely face 2-3 very lean years. Personally, I'd reccomend dividing up the land into sections and rotating. In the first year, fertilize section 'a' with organic, and the remaining 3 by chemical. In year 2, fertilize 'a' and 'b' with organic, and the other 2 chemical. Repeat this process and within 4 years, you'll be 100% organic and will have built up a huge stockpile of fertilizer as a hedge against bad years. If you have the space to leave a portion fallow for a season, add your calcium carbonate during the fallow year, then fertilize organic following the fallow year.

[Colorado-Valley]

We've been raising cattle on natural grass for 100 years without using fertilizer. There's clover mixed in with the grasses, and we break up the cow pies and spread them with a chain harrow every year.

Our biggest problem is moisture, since we live in western Colorado and have to irrigate pastures.

I also recommend Joe's book, "Salad Bar Beef."

[Dreamtwister]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FoxV', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('highlander', 'B')ite the bullet and apply nitrogen, or thin your herd. Just keep spreading the manure around and in a few years, you should start getting real soil again!

[Ludi]

Heck no, you can harrow and overseed with clover or other legume, no need to plow and replant!


I second the legume idea, good to add in extra nutrition for the cows that way (if you don't already have mixed pastures), you might want to toss in a few broadleafed plants too.


In any case pastures should be rotated, not set-stocked.


(easy for me to say, harder to implement)

[pip]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', 'L')earn to compost. According to the EPA, the average household produces 20.8 cubic yards of waste annually. 26% of that could be compost. That works out to roughly three quarters of a ton of organic fertilizer. Add in cattle waste and you should have *plenty* to cover 105 acres, and it won't cost you a dime in materials.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FoxV', 'T')here are also many alternatives to nitrogen fertilizer out there (although I doubt as effective).

but perhaps now would be a good time to do some test plots of various fertilizers to see if there is a good cost effective alternative.

As prices for natural gas is not going down. Best to look for the alternative now, while you have a choice (I would suspect potash/phospate is going up because many people are probably abandoning nitrogen based fertilizers perhaps making a temporary(?) supply crunch).

[Dreamtwister]

Build your own tree bog!

You can trim the willows and add the cuttings to your compost. Good way to boost your carbon count.

[grabby]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FoxV', ' ')

Here in the SE LP you can find 'organic' fertilizer made from sterilized consolidated sewage form one or another of the cities in these parts, but you have to be careful as some of them are contaminated with heavy metals from old piping systems. Still it might be work looking into if your local governments are responsible in what they sell for fertilizer use.

[PhebaAndThePilgrim]

Good day From Pheba, from the farm:

I do not get much time to post on this site, but I always feel better when I do. After being out in the world and witnessing the unraveling of so much, it is great to communicate with people who "get it".

Anyway, from the farm:
My husband is (Mr. Pheba!) has been farming since 1971. He purchased his farm at age 19. He is very aware of farming. He is standing behind me as I type this and is clearing up some things for us.

Here in Missouri most pasture is K31 (Fescue). K31 is a non-native that was introduced and became widely used in the 1940's. For those who are interested in learning more my hubby reccomends the book "Forages" by Heath, Metcalfe and Barnes.

K31 is the dominant pasture grass in Missouri, along with small amounts of brome, bluegrass, orchard grass, and recently native warm season grasses are becoming more widely used.

K31 is tolerant of poor drainage, particularly in winter. The grass is very drough resistant. K31 takes a lot of abuse. The grass can be grazed very closely and just keeps coming back.

All of these traits sound wonderful. That's why so much of the grass was planted. K31 is invasive and spreads by bunches.
Unfortunately K31 is infested with an endophyte fungus. The fungus is hard on livestock, and can cause foot problems, rough hair coats, elevated temperature, and vascular constriction in cattle.
The fungus can cause abortions in pregnant horses.

K31 also helps prevent erosion. Constant tilling to plant cover crops causes a lot of soil loss.

K31 must be properly managed.
My husband does not put down nitrogen fertilizer for K31. Fertilizer that we apply is mainly phosphate and potash.
In the winter time the pastures are over-seed with clovers and lespedeza, (a legume also).

During early spring when the fescue is growing rapidly the cattle are concentrated on small paddocks (intensive grazing management) to keep the fescue grazed off so the legumes have a chance to start emerging.

The only place we generally put down nitrogen is on 22 acres of a native warm-season grass called Eastern Gamma grass.

This year we did not apply any nitrogen on the Gamma grass, but it was all over-seeded with lespedeza to fix nitrogen.

The cost for the lespedeza on 22 acres was about 121.00. This does not include the cost of fuel for the tractor.
If we had put down nitrogen fertilizer instead of lespedeza the cost would have been over 440.00 for the 22 acres.

With this type of management system the grasses do not grow as lush as with synthetic nitrogen fertilizer, but the grazing season is spread out over the entire season instead of being concentrated in the spring when the fertilizer is applied.
Also, legumes attract and feed wildlife, which is another reason my conservation minded husband has been working on this system since 1992.

My husband just said, "Okay, that's enough". He said that he could dictate a book on this subject.

I hope this clears some of this up.

Sorry for any confusion I caused. He has forgottten more than I will ever know about farming.

Pheba, and Mr. Pheba.

[Pops]

Hi Mr. And Mrs. Pheoba, hope you get a good stand on your clover – I wanted to frost-seed some of our pasture this winter but it was so dry down here I figured it would be a waste.
Do you have any experience with the endophyte free fescue? As I understand it one of the reasons that fescue is so persistent is insects don’t like the fungus and so establishing the non-infected seed is somewhat hard. And of course getting rid of the old infected seed is also hard.
All we raise presently are bottle calves so the longer-term fescue problems aren’t really a problem - only the Summer Slump.
Anyway, in case anyone is interested in the basics of fertilizers Here is a good primer.

[Gazzatrone]

Can you not recover nitrates from the livestock manure. Or does regulation tell you that the "natural" way to do things can be detremental to Human life if it gets into the water cycle.

[frankthetank]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')lant managers say they can't find sufficient supplies of natural gas, which is necessary for the production of the fertilizer.
The plant's last cargo ship is destined for Korea with 27,000 tons of fertilizer made from Cook Inlet natural gas, a dwindling commodity in southcentral Alaska.
Company officials say 80 workers lost their jobs this week. An additional 50 will be laid off in coming months as the plant is mothballed.

[WildRose]

Frank, I found this article, which says the plant has not been able to secure an adequate natural gas supply in the Cook Inlet region. They purchased 53 BCF of natural gas in 2001, and this has steadily decreased in amount to 10 BCF in 2007. I guess it's an indicator of how much tighter natural gas supplies are getting? The article indicates they may try to use coal gasification to get the plant going again (though it would take years to do so).

http://www.agrium.com/5784_8346.jsp

I also wonder who will feel the loss of the fertilizer that was produced there.

[blukatzen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WildRose', 'h')ttp://www.agrium.com/5784_8346.jsp I also wonder who will feel the loss of the fertilizer that was produced there.

[roccman]

And the circle gets smaller.

[Hydro_Man]

Interesting information: gasification

[WildRose]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hydro_Man', 'I')nteresting information: gasification

[cynthia]

No Worries!
The No.53 issue of Permaculture Magazine (www.permaculture.co.uk)
has an article on page 45 called, The Pee in Permaculture. Great nitrogen source, but don't tell your friends your secret as you hand over the surplus veggies you grew using urine.
On a large scale, until we are forced to realize flushing pee with potable water into the sewer system is a huge waste (pun intended) the loss of commercially made fertilizers will devastate our food supplies.
cynthia

[frankthetank]

The urine around here goes into the Mississippi River. The solids end up on local fields... Its good that they don't send this crap into the river too