[lorenzo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zoidberg', 'I') dont think there'd be too many biofuel crops coming from that land before the tundra soil is depleted. Try again!

[mrobert]

And building up a large-scale agricultural infrastructure in the Tundra won't be easy. What are the costs and the timeframe to do that?

Or by that time, there will be over 1 billion people willing to work there for a dollar a day.

[zoidberg]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lorenzo', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zoidberg', 'I') dont think there'd be too many biofuel crops coming from that land before the tundra soil is depleted. Try again!

[lorenzo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mrobert', 'A')nd building up a large-scale agricultural infrastructure in the Tundra won't be easy. What are the costs and the timeframe to do that? Or by that time, there will be over 1 billion people willing to work there for a dollar a day.

[outcast]

So we're not doomed?

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lorenzo', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Southpaw', 'T')he only biofuel that maybe will have a future someday is Oilgae if it ever gets competitive, I believe

[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lorenzo', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zoidberg', 'I') dont think there'd be too many biofuel crops coming from that land before the tundra soil is depleted. Try again!

[bruce2288]

You might want to do a little research about top soil. Humus is the basic difference between top soil and subsoil. It is created by the interaction, of organisms and organic matter. Organisms being bacteria, molds,fungi,worms, nematodes ect. Organic matter is constantly being destroyed in a healthy soil and must be replenished. Thus the catch of cellulosic ethanol, if you constantly take the crop residue off the soil, you reduce soil organic matter and thus reduce soil fertility.

[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bruce2288', 'Y')ou might want to do a little research about top soil. Humus is the basic difference between top soil and subsoil. It is created by the interaction, of organisms and organic matter. Organisms being bacteria, molds,fungi,worms, nematodes ect. Organic matter is constantly being destroyed in a healthy soil and must be replenished. Thus the catch of cellulosic ethanol, if you constantly take the crop residue off the soil, you reduce soil organic matter and thus reduce soil fertility.

[Carlhole]

King of Bionic Ag Uses Turbocharged Seeds, Precision Chemistry, and a Little TLC

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Wired', 'T')hey came over the prairie in their pickup trucks, in the cool, quiet hours before dawn. They rolled through the gentle foothills of the Ozarks in air-conditioned tour buses with paintings of stagecoaches airbrushed on the black-lacquered side panels. They came wearing mud-smudged 10-gallon hats and frayed John Deere baseball caps. And then they stepped down out of their vehicles, each one of these farmers, and set foot on holy ground.

It is here, on the rust-colored loam of Stark City, Missouri (population 156), that Kip Cullers became the soybean king of the world. In 2007, Cullers harvested 155 bushels of soybeans per acre from a small plot—eclipsing his own world record of 139. (The US average is 40.) It is also here, on another section of his 11,000-acre farm in 2007, that Cullers grew 329 bushels of corn per acre—not a world record but enough for a top prize at the National Corn Yield Contest.

Cullers is 44. He is a devout Baptist who named his two sons Noah and Naaman after people in the Old Testament. He is thin—rail thin—and carries the twitchy, antic vibe of an early David Byrne. He blinks constantly and has a habit of furrowing his brow. When he takes a dip of chewing tobacco, he taps his tin of Copenhagen twice, quickly.

[dorlomin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')e espoused growing techniques that were then revolutionary—super-deep plowing, for instance, and high-dosage fertilizing.

[Hermes]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '
')No one's going to be going hungry anytime soon.

[dohboi]

At least 95% of the energy used on a modern industrial farm is from oil. When we run out of that, this guy's gonna be toast.

What is Cantarell's decline rate these days, anyway?

[JustaGirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dohboi', 'A')t least 95% of the energy used on a modern industrial farm is from oil. When we run out of that, this guy's gonna be toast.

[dohboi]

I've heard and read that figure a number of times, but I'm having trouble right now finding the sources.

In the mean time here are some sources that give related info:

link

At about seven and a half minutes in the video, Heinberg mentions the near total dependence of modern ag on oil.

The wiki on ag also has a discussion on oil dependence:

link

"Since the 1940s, agriculture has dramatically increased its productivity, due largely to the use of petrochemical derived pesticides, fertilizers, and increased mechanization (the so-called Green Revolution). Between 1950 and 1984, as the Green Revolution transformed agriculture around the globe, world grain production increased by 250%.[77][78] This has allowed world population to grow more than double over the last 50 years. However, every energy unit delivered in food grown using modern techniques requires over ten energy units to produce and deliver, [79] although this statistic is contested by proponents of petroleum-based agriculture.[80] The vast majority of this energy input comes from fossil fuel sources. Because of modern agriculture's current heavy reliance on petrochemicals and mechanization, there are warnings that the ever decreasing supply of oil (the dramatic nature of which is known as peak oil[81][82][83][84][85]) will inflict major damage on the modern industrial agriculture system, and could cause large food shortages.[86]
Modern or industrialized agriculture is dependent on petroleum in two fundamental ways: 1) cultivation--to get the crop from seed to harvest and 2) transport--to get the harvest from the farm to the consumer's refrigerator. It takes approximately 400 gallons of oil a year per citizen to fuel the tractors, combines and other equipment used on farms for cultivation or 17 percent of the nation's total energy use.[87] Oil and natural gas are also the building blocks of the fertilizers, pesticides and herbicides used on farms. Petroleum is also providing the energy required to process food before it reaches the market. It takes the energy equivalent of a half-gallon of gasoline to produce a two-pound bag of breakfast cereal.[88] And that still does not count the energy needed to transport that cereal to market; it is the transport of processed foods and crops that consumes the most oil. The kiwi from New Zealand, the asparagus from Argentina, the melons and broccoli from Guatemala, the organic lettuce from California, the twinkie from Twinkieville--most food items on the consumer's plate travel average of 1,500 miles just to get there.[89]"

Really, if anything, I would say 95% is low. Where does modern industrial ag depend on any other power source for moving its massive machines around? And don't point to corn ethanol which itself requires such oil inputs to produce that the energy return on energy investment may well be below the break even point of one. Are there lots of combines running on wind, solar, geothermal or other sources of energy?

[Lanthanide]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dohboi', 'T')he kiwi from New Zealand

[rangerone314]

I've heard various figures, in articles, including one that has been tossed around, that 450 lbs of corn (8 bushels) provides enough calories to feed a person for a year.

I've seen one figure that a pound of corn gives 1600 calories per pound, which jives with the 450 lbs per person/year, and a different figure of 400 calories per pound of corn?

Is 450 lbs per person enough calories for a year? (I've been researching corn yields and if the 1600 food cal is true, then 7500 sqFt of corn with 4,200 plants should provide about 1,500 lbs of corn, or enough for 3 adults.

[PrestonSturges]

I think you lost a decimal point. 7500 sq ft is 1/6 of an acre.

75,000 sq ft would be realistic.

[Ludi]

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/