[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he large-scale air strikes - numbering 250 so far in 24 hours, according to an Israeli military spokesman - have so far killed around 280, mostly Palestinian police officers, and left hundreds more injured. Hamas has pledged suicide attacks against Israeli civilians in retaliation.

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')srael on Sunday destroyed Hamas’s main security complex in the Gaza Strip and is mobilising military reservists for a possible invasion of the territory, after killing at least 280 Palestinians in two days of air strikes.

The UN Security Council on Sunday called an immediate end to Israeli air attacks against the Hamas-controlled territory and to rocket attacks from the territory on towns in southern Israel.

”The members of the Security Council expressed serious concern at the escalation of the situation in Gaza and called for an immediate halt to all violence,” said a statement read to reporters by Neven Jurica, the Croatian Ambassador and president of the council. ”The members called on the parties to stop immediately all military activities.”

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Israel Defense Forces on early Sunday began mobilizing tanks and reinforcing ground troops near the Gaza border, in preparation for a possible ground incursion.

Defense Minister Ehud Barak told Sky News that he would not rule out widening the offensive in the Gaza Strip to include a ground invasion.

Barak on Saturday also said Israel "cannot really accept" a cease-fire with Hamas, rejecting calls by the United Nations and the European Union for a truce after Israel Air Force strikes killed at least 230 people in Gaza.
Advertisement
"For us to be asked to have a cease-fire with Hamas is like asking you to have a cease-fire with Al-Qaida," Barak said in an interview with Fox News. "It's something we cannot really accept."

[eastbay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kam3Oen', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')or the long-term, like for less than a decade or two, Israel's chances for survival are totally hopeless. They'll eventually get a very nasty taste of what they've been dishing out these past 60 years. Just give it some time. Nothing can stop the coming death of that 'nation'.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', '
')the early on push along their road to oblivion will be caused by peak oil and economic collapse.

Their European and North American benefactors will slow the flow of critical funding and military aid as time passes and as economies worldwide fade. This will eventually embolden the neighbors of this artificial state and they will grind away at Israel's borders until enough Jews have had enough of it and leave. Fewer will move there as the hopelessness grows deeper. It's be a generation long process, but most here will see it occur.

[wisconsin_cur]

By Zahra Hosseinian

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')EHRAN, Dec 28 (Reuters) - Iran's Supreme Leader issued a religious decree to Muslims around the world on Sunday, ordering them to defend Palestinians in Gaza against Israeli attacks "in any way possible", state television reported.

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei also declared Monday a day of public mourning in Iran after Israel killed more than 280 Palestinians in two days of air strikes on Gaza.

"All Palestinian combatants and all the Islamic world's pious people are obliged to defend the defenceless women, children and people in Gaza in any way possible," Khamenei said.

"Whoever is killed in this legitimate defence, is considered a martyr," he said in a statement.

[PenultimateManStanding]

That part of the world is baffling to me. Hamas is a Sunni organization yet it is funded by both Saudi Arabia and Iran. Saudi Arabia is an American ally and Sunni. Iran is an American enemy and Shiite. How do you make any sense out of all this? Then you've got the Americans looking the other way as Iraqi Shiites ethnically cleanse Iraqi Sunnis. Then the Iraqi Sunnis throw in their lot with Americans to fight off Al Qaeda. What the heck is going on?

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'T')hat part of the world is baffling to me. Hamas is a Sunni organization yet it is funded by both Saudi Arabia and Iran. Saudi Arabia is an American ally and Sunni. Iran is an American enemy and Shiite. How do you make any sense out of all this? Then you've got the Americans looking the other way as Iraqi Shiites ethnically cleanse Iraqi Sunnis. Then the Iraqi Sunnis throw in their lot with Americans to fight off Al Qaeda. What the heck is going on?

[3aidlillahi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'T')hat part of the world is baffling to me. Hamas is a Sunni organization yet it is funded by both Saudi Arabia and Iran. Saudi Arabia is an American ally and Sunni. Iran is an American enemy and Shiite. How do you make any sense out of all this? Then you've got the Americans looking the other way as Iraqi Shiites ethnically cleanse Iraqi Sunnis. Then the Iraqi Sunnis throw in their lot with Americans to fight off Al Qaeda. What the heck is going on?

[flametree]

Isreali jets attach Gaza, more than 200 dead and not a single comment?

[marq=left]Topics merged by Wisconsin_Cur[/marq]

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'T')hat part of the world is baffling to me. Hamas is a Sunni organization yet it is funded by both Saudi Arabia and Iran. Saudi Arabia is an American ally and Sunni. Iran is an American enemy and Shiite. How do you make any sense out of all this? Then you've got the Americans looking the other way as Iraqi Shiites ethnically cleanse Iraqi Sunnis. Then the Iraqi Sunnis throw in their lot with Americans to fight off Al Qaeda. What the heck is going on?

[mos6507]

The chickens have come home to roost.

[3aidlillahi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hat doesn't really clarify anything for me. Besides, religion is a very big deal over there. Perhaps too big a deal. Shiites and Sunnis are at each others' throats and only take time out to plot the destruction of the Jews. They all share a common Middle Eastern religious heritage. Its sick.

[wisconsin_cur]

When shiite vs sunni is a local political problem they are at each other throats.

Where it is in Iran's interest to be seen as doing something for the Palesitinians, and Shiites and Sunni are not at each others throats, the divide is no big deal at all.

It has little or nothing to do with religion. It is not a religious war any time... but religion motivates people where nationalism/tribalism may not. At the very least it has the appearance of being more noble to many audiences.

Secularists also like to blame violence, where ever they can, on religion to feed the narrative born of Europe's reformation that all wars and persecutions are to be laid at the feet of religion. That does not mean that it is true; just that this is the narrative often put forward.

Ignore the talk of Shiites and Sunnis... more often than not you will be be closer to the truth of the conflict. Look into information about tribes and nations... there, more times than not, you will also be closer to the truth.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('3aidlillahi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hat doesn't really clarify anything for me. Besides, religion is a very big deal over there. Perhaps too big a deal. Shiites and Sunnis are at each others' throats and only take time out to plot the destruction of the Jews. They all share a common Middle Eastern religious heritage. Its sick.

[3aidlillahi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hat a fact? Why don't you try a complex post on PO.com Mr. 3hidihidiho to lend some insight. Take your time, break it up into little pieces. I'm listening.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('3aidlillahi', 'M')aybe I'd try to help you understand if you'd quit purposely mocking my name (you've done this before). But that makes me think you don't actually want to know, which is why you make sly comments like above about it all being about religion.

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('3aidlillahi', 'M')aybe I'd try to help you understand if you'd quit purposely mocking my name (you've done this before). But that makes me think you don't actually want to know, which is why you make sly comments like above about it all being about religion.

[3aidlillahi]

All politics are local. Groups will all have different ultimate goals although they may have similar initial goals. They're more focused on accomplishments rather than with whom it is accomplished.

Same thing happens in the US. It doesn't really matter if someone passes legislation with a member of the opposite party or not - what matters is the result. Evangelical Christians have no problem working with Jews or Muslims, as long as they can get what they want either in Israel or "democracy in the Middle East".

Many times there will be groups with different goals but the same religion such as Hamas and Fatah (both Sunni) in Palestine. One seeks complete victory and the other reconciliation and a two-state solution. Yet they hate their guts and spilled the blood of more than a hundred to demonstrate.

Most of the religion talk isn't "We're Sunni and they're Shi'a so let's do this" or whatever. It's usually general terms "God wants us to do this", etc.

A lot of the problems in Iraq have to do with ethnicity or perceived ethnicity. There was an TV show that we watched in Arabic class a few years ago, with subtitles, and it was about the execution of Saddam. There was a moderator, a Sunni and a Shi'a. The Sunni praised Saddam and the other didn't. Rather than talking along religious terms, it was ethnic and cultural. The conversation eventually resorted to name-calling. The Sunni accused the Shi'a of being an Iranian shoe (puppet).

The issue shown here again is one of goals. Arabs and Persians have fought sporadically for thousands of years, even before the ability for Sunnis and Shi'a to exist. Thus, many Arabs are wary of Persian influence in Iraq and beyond and vice versa. But notice little religious strife in places in Bahrain, a Shi'a majority ruled by and surrounded by Sunnis.

Doesn't Israel get much of their oil from Kuwait or one of the Gulf countries? There's definitely rumors about it.

I think religion does play a part. But if there are bigger reasons such as land, oil, money, power, etc. at play, then they will be dominant for most groups. For a few groups or members of groups, religion will be the motivating factor 100 percent of the time.

[hermit]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'T')he chickens have come home to roost.