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The Hamas Thread (merged)

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Israel vs Hamas heating up

Unread postby threadbear » Sat 27 Dec 2008, 22:51:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('3aidlillahi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')amas is heroic.
Someone actually buys their BS? Heroic attack on School
Heroic would be to stop attacking Sderot and start attacking the checkpoints that are guarded by Israeli soldiers. Why bomb buildings when soldiers are in sight and range? Attacking innocents isn't courageous nor noble.

How do you propose they do that? As long as they are bullied and outgunned, both literally and technologically, Israel can expect more of the same.
If your family was being slowly starved, and imprisoned what would you do? Hamas IS heroic, though some of the individual acts are atrocities that undermine their humanity. I completely agree. It's asymmetrical warfare.
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Re: Israel vs Hamas heating up

Unread postby 3aidlillahi » Sat 27 Dec 2008, 23:06:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s long as they are bullied and outgunned, both literally and technologically,

That's a general condition of "heroism". Heroism is generally held as one who overcomes amazing odds and prevails or at least acts with nobility and courage. Hamas is taken the uncourageous act by avoiding the enemy and they are not being noble by shooting at innocents. Hizbullah, on the other hand, is a better example of heroism in the modern era. Especially compared to their contemporaries although their use of their missiles was absurd.
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Re: Israel vs Hamas heating up

Unread postby threadbear » Sat 27 Dec 2008, 23:17:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('3aidlillahi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s long as they are bullied and outgunned, both literally and technologically,
Hizbullah, on the other hand, is a better example of heroism in the modern era.

Why is that?
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Re: Israel vs Hamas heating up

Unread postby mos6507 » Sat 27 Dec 2008, 23:19:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 'F')or the long-term, like for less than a decade or two, Israel's chances for survival are totally hopeless. They'll eventually get a very nasty taste of what they've been dishing out these past 60 years. Just give it some time. Nothing can stop the coming death of that 'nation'.

Thank you Mr. Ahmadinejad.
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Re: Israel vs Hamas heating up

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Sat 27 Dec 2008, 23:22:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'I')srael needs to get it's butt kicked, and hard. It's got to experience some of the collective punishment it's been forcing Arabs to put up with for decades. Hamas is heroic.
For the long-term, like for less than a decade or two, Israel's chances for survival are totally hopeless. They'll eventually get a very nasty taste of what they've been dishing out these past 60 years. Just give it some time. Nothing can stop the coming death of that 'nation'.

Look at the demographics of the entire Middle East.

Look at their exports, and their imports.

They are pretty much all dead. It is only a question of which swirling soap bubble goes down the sink first.
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Re: Israel vs Hamas heating up

Unread postby 3aidlillahi » Sat 27 Dec 2008, 23:24:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('3aidlillahi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s long as they are bullied and outgunned, both literally and technologically,
Hizbullah, on the other hand, is a better example of heroism in the modern era.
Why is that?

90% of their targets are soldiers. 90% of the targets of Hamas are civilians. What's heroic about killing innocents?
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Re: Israel vs Hamas heating up

Unread postby 3aidlillahi » Sat 27 Dec 2008, 23:27:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')ook at their exports, and their imports. They are pretty much all dead.

+1
It doesn't even take the first to arrive at the second. Most of the land is arid or semi-arid and can support a few tens of millions tops. 200+ million is insane. I'm talking about from Morocco to Iraq. Not including Turkey or Iran. It won't be starvation though. Water is a much more critical issue.
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Re: Israel vs Hamas heating up

Unread postby eastbay » Sat 27 Dec 2008, 23:47:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('3aidlillahi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('3aidlillahi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s long as they are bullied and outgunned, both literally and technologically,
Hizbullah, on the other hand, is a better example of heroism in the modern era.
Why is that?
90% of their targets are soldiers. 90% of the targets of Hamas are civilians. What's heroic about killing innocents?

80%, 90%, HA!! the Israeli's beat them both today by killing 100% civilians. Hundreds of them. I'm sure that will teach them to obey The Great Chosen Lords. :roll:
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Re: Israel vs Hamas heating up

Unread postby 3aidlillahi » Sat 27 Dec 2008, 23:49:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '8')0%, 90%, HA!! the Israeli's beat them both today by killing 100% civilians. Hundreds of them. I'm sure that will teach them to obey The Great Chosen Lords.

Nobody's calling IDF heroic.
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Re: Israel vs Hamas heating up

Unread postby eastbay » Sat 27 Dec 2008, 23:52:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('3aidlillahi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '8')0%, 90%, HA!! the Israeli's beat them both today by killing 100% civilians. Hundreds of them. I'm sure that will teach them to obey The Great Chosen Lords.
Nobody's calling IDF heroic.

Not today, of course, but they've had their moments of heroism. They can be quite patriotic.
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Re: Israel vs Hamas heating up

Unread postby mos6507 » Sat 27 Dec 2008, 23:59:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', '8')0%, 90%, HA!! the Israeli's beat them both today by killing 100% civilians. Hundreds of them. I'm sure that will teach them to obey The Great Chosen Lords. :roll:

I don't see how you think you can avoid ad hominems when you sit at one extreme edge of a complicated geopolitical dispute like this actively rooting for only one side, selectively applying moral judgment. If there is one thing I have no respect for is moral double-standards.
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Re: Israel vs Hamas heating up

Unread postby eastbay » Sun 28 Dec 2008, 00:05:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'I') don't see how you think you can avoid ad hominems when you sit at one extreme edge of a complicated geopolitical dispute like this actively rooting for only one side, selectively applying moral judgment. If there is one thing I have no respect for is moral double-standards.

It's easy. I'll let you know how! Just point out the flaws in the position and leave it at that. One more time: Just point out the flaw and walk away.

I do it all the time. So do most here. There's no need to EVER be mean to anyone here. Or mean to anyone in RL either, for that matter.

C'mon Mos, give it a try. You may like that approach better! :)
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Re: Israel vs Hamas heating up

Unread postby kam3Oen » Sun 28 Dec 2008, 00:47:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')or the long-term, like for less than a decade or two, Israel's chances for survival are totally hopeless. They'll eventually get a very nasty taste of what they've been dishing out these past 60 years. Just give it some time. Nothing can stop the coming death of that 'nation'.

And how exactly do you, such a forward thinking individual, see Israel's destruction going down. How is it that you've come to the conclusion that Israel, the 4th largest nuclear power in the world, is doomed. Will the jews be driven into the sea by the arabs like Nasser proudly proclaimed, or will they be done in by a South African style anti-apartheid movement, or perhaps some other scenario. Please Nostradamus, peer into your crystal ball for me.
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Re: Israel vs Hamas heating up

Unread postby 3aidlillahi » Sun 28 Dec 2008, 00:49:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kam3Oen', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')or the long-term, like for less than a decade or two, Israel's chances for survival are totally hopeless. They'll eventually get a very nasty taste of what they've been dishing out these past 60 years. Just give it some time. Nothing can stop the coming death of that 'nation'.
And how exactly do you, such a forward thinking individual, see Israel's destruction going down. How is it that you've come to the conclusion that Israel, the 4th largest nuclear power in the world, is doomed. Will the jews be driven into the sea by the arabs like Nasser proudly proclaimed, or will they be done in by a South African style anti-apartheid movement, or perhaps some other scenario. Please Nostradamus, peer into your crystal ball for me.

They'll run out of water just like every other Desert nation.
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Re: Israel vs Hamas heating up

Unread postby mos6507 » Sun 28 Dec 2008, 01:09:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', '
')It's easy. I'll let you know how! Just point out the flaws in the position and leave it at that. One more time: Just point out the flaw and walk away.


I know how it goes. We've been through this before. I'll say I don't respect the palestinians because they've built up a death cult culture that exhalts suicide bombers, that they are not a partner in peace, that giving them Gaza has only emboldened them (give em an inch, they'll take a mile). You'll say it's all the Israeli's fault for making them this way. I'll say you're just using the "devil made me do it" argument and that there is no justification in being an apologist for terrorism. You'll say one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter. You'll use their argument that blowing up restaurants is valid asymmetrical warfare. There is no reconciliation of viewpoints to be had here. You've decided to hold both sides against two totally different moral yardsticks. That's not how I see things.
Last edited by mos6507 on Sun 28 Dec 2008, 01:17:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Israel vs Hamas heating up

Unread postby mos6507 » Sun 28 Dec 2008, 01:15:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('3aidlillahi', '
')They'll run out of water just like every other Desert nation.


Israel has a dense population but it's still a small country and if they want to reengineer their infrastructure they can do it pretty quickly (like Project Better Place). If they want water they can do a lot of desalinization if they have enough nuclear power. I don't see them going down post-peak without putting on a pretty good display of technofixes.
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Re: Israel vs Hamas heating up

Unread postby 3aidlillahi » Sun 28 Dec 2008, 01:16:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', '
')It's easy. I'll let you know how! Just point out the flaws in the position and leave it at that. One more time: Just point out the flaw and walk away.


I know how it goes. We've been through this before. I'll say I don't respect the palestinians because they've built up a death cult culture that exhalts suicide bombers, that they are not a partner in peace, that giving them Gaza has only emboldened them (give em an inch, they'll take a mile). You'll say it's all the Israeli's fault for making them this way. I'll say you're just using the "devil made me do it" argument and that there is no justification in being an apologist for terrorism. You'll say one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter. You'll use their argument that blowing up restaurants is valid asymmetrical warfare. There is no reconciliation of viewpoints to be had here.


Wrong. You forgot the Hitler comparisons.

How can Hitler not come up when discussing Israel and Palestine?
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Re: Israel vs Hamas heating up

Unread postby hermit » Sun 28 Dec 2008, 02:04:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '
')I know how it goes. We've been through this before. I'll say I don't respect the palestinians because they've built up a death cult culture that exhalts suicide bombers, that they are not a partner in peace, that giving them Gaza has only emboldened them (give em an inch, they'll take a mile). You'll say it's all the Israeli's fault for making them this way. I'll say you're just using the "devil made me do it" argument and that there is no justification in being an apologist for terrorism. You'll say one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter. You'll use their argument that blowing up restaurants is valid asymmetrical warfare. There is no reconciliation of viewpoints to be had here. You've decided to hold both sides against two totally different moral yardsticks. That's not how I see things.


I envision you typing with one hand while holding a pamphlet of zionist talking points in the other.
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Re: Israel vs Hamas heating up

Unread postby mos6507 » Sun 28 Dec 2008, 03:46:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hermit', '
')I envision you typing with one hand while holding a pamphlet of zionist talking points in the other.


I envision you dressing up and acting out Farfour's death in your spare time.

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Re: Israel vs Hamas heating up

Unread postby IslandCrow » Sun 28 Dec 2008, 03:47:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'L')ook at the demographics of the entire Middle East.



Mid-2008 estimates.

Isreal 7,5 million, growth rate 1,6% (= 120 000/ year, 329/day)
Palestinian Territory 4,2 million growth rate 3,3% (= 138 600/year, 3807day)

Saudi Arabia 28,1 million, growth rate 2,7% (=758 700/year, 2079/day)
etc.

The bloodiest day in the Isreal vs Palestine conflict reresents less than one day's increase in population. With the population growth rates of a small area beind so high I execpt lots of blood resulting from increasing frustration.

Someone earlier commented on lack of the international press in Gaza. One trouble has been that in the past various factions have taken it upon themselves to abduct journalists, often ones who have been quite supportive of the Palestinian cause (such as the BBC journalist of a year or so ago), which has not help their cause much.
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