[Eli]

Hamas wins Palestinian election
Well this election is not going to help quiet things down with Iran. Hamas and Iran are kindred spirits, they both believe and are fighting for the total destruction of Israel. The US says it will not deal with a Hamas run government, I guess democracy can be pain in the ass some times. I think this election of Hamas is going to put Israel even more on edge.

[Armageddon]

yep, i think the entire middle east is on the verge of erupting into a full blown war. possibly ww3. I think it's very likely. plus, with the iranian situation, things could deteriorate quickly.

[jdmartin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('armegeddon', 'y')ep, i think the entire middle east is on the verge of erupting into a full blown war. possibly ww3. I think it's very likely. plus, with the iranian situation, things could deteriorate quickly.

[thor]

Iran: We can put Israel in 'eternal coma'.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 10,00.html

Now with Hamas running the show, I'm sure the abolition of Israel will be on top of their agenda and Iran will probably be a great partner in that regard. Stay tuned for the poo to hit the fan.

[Zardoz]

There's one positive about this:

We'll get to see Bush and his PNAC jackals squirm and sweat to somehow come up with some sort of positive spin on this. Let's see how they try to make this something other than a total defeat for them and their catastrophic policies.

[erl]

I'm not sure how this is a "defeat" for Bush or the U.S. It seems to me to be a defeat for the Palestinians and their desire for an autonomous state.

Their cause may have just taken a big step backward. Either way, we should know shortly.

[backstop]

Posts above appear to be recipients of a key item of disinformation -

it was mentioned on BBC TV (very briefly) that Hamas recently formally ammended its constitution to acknowledge Israel's right to exist.

As the democratic representative of an aggrieved people whose land has been illegally occcupied since the '67 war, attempts to villify Hamas as genocidal surely only discredit those making them ?

While not in any way condoning the killing of civilians, either by suicide bombers or ground attack jet aircraft, the question people need to ask in relation to Hamas determination, is just how long and how hard would they fight for their land against an occupying force ?

regards,

Backstop

[Leanan]

I think this may actually be good news. Hamas wants to engage politically. As long as they're doing that, they won't be blowing people up.

Hamas did not run on a "we're going to push Israel into the sea" platform. They did not mention Israel at all. Instead, they spoke about the things that really matter to Palestinians: jobs, schools, medical care, support for the poor.

This is one thing that many Americans do not understand. Hamas has broad support among Palestinians because in many cases, they are the government. They build schools and hospitals, they feed the poor, etc. Israel pulled out years ago, the Palestinian Authority is corrupt and disorganized. Hamas has a political wing as well as the military wing, and the political wing is what most Palestinians know. A vote for Hamas doesn't necessarily mean a vote for suicide bombings.

[sammybolthead]

On a narrower viewpoint, a bunch of "IF's". If the US can't attack Iran due to lack of ability and would rely on Isreal to do it's bidding, if Isreal is now going to be distracted much closer to home by the Hamas victory, if Hamas really is going to be a pain in the butt for Isreal, would not all these if's actually quiet the more pressing possiblity of an Isreali led attack on Iran, which would draw in the rest of the world?

[Eli]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('backstop', 'P')osts above appear to be recipients of a key item of disinformation -

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('erl', 'I')'m not sure how this is a "defeat" for Bush or the U.S.

[The_Virginian]

Either way the Israeli Gov. will use this as an excuse to unilateraly withdraw, behind the new ghetto wall.

It will be much pain for both sides...

[Jake_old]

I think it means back to the US veto of every UN resolution against Israel. More preemptive action against Palestinians, more spin, more war on terror.

Why couldn't they have voted for a western friendly government?:roll:

[Eli]

Here is some more disinformation.


Iran Hales Hamas Victory

So Hamas and Iran have a defensive pact. This has got to make Israel nervous.

[Leanan]

Well, Dubya went from "we do not negotiate with terrorists" to "well, maybe we do" pretty quickly.

How peak-oil-aware is Israel? Seems like their position is going to be mighty uncomfortable when TSHTF. Have they given any thought to what they are going to do in the post-carbon age? They're basically living in a desert. Their agriculture system is extremely dependent on imported oil. Never mind the oil-powered technology that allows them to subdue a much larger population of Arabs.

[OneLoneClone]

Hamas has been providing vital services ( the kind goverments provid) to the Palestinian community for years, in addition to blowing up busses.

Clearly they are more than 'terrorists'.

They now have the palestinian peoples backing, and are legitimized. All they need to do is stop blowing up busses and civilians and restrict their targets to Israeli military and it will be difficult to call them terrorists.

Cant remember who said it, but,
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'w')ar is nationalized terrorism, terrorism is privatized war

[Leanan]

Yeah, I agree.

But in the Middle East, oil and water are not unrelated. One reason Israeli agriculture is so oil-intensive is the need to irrigate everything.

Israel is downsteam of everyone. They could be sucked dry, except for the threat of their military. Water is a huge source of conflict in the West Bank. Palestinians barely have enough to drink and water their crops, while Israeli settlers splash in their backyard pools and water their lush, green lawns.

The solution often proposed is a desalination plant. Saudi Arabia has one. But Saudi Arabia has a lot of oil to run it with.

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('backstop', 'P')osts above appear to be recipients of a key item of disinformation - ...it was mentioned on BBC TV (very briefly) that Hamas recently formally ammended its constitution to acknowledge Israel's right to exist...

[Leanan]

I would say "Aljazeera is gloating" is a more accurate statement.

[erl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OneLoneClone', 'C')learly they are more than 'terrorists'.

They now have the palestinian peoples backing, and are legitimized. All they need to do is stop blowing up busses and civilians and restrict their targets to Israeli military and it will be difficult to call them terrorists.