[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wildbourgman', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'W')hatever 6. It has not been done & never will. Probably the greatest mysteries.

[SeaGypsy]

Until Jew killer Paul became the key New Testament figure, works were what God judged man by. Paul proposed & developed the idea of 'salvation by faith', based on snippets of the Old Testament, God choosing according to 'his' own standards, everyone being a sinner, redemption through repentance & rebirth. There is still a schism in Christianity about this. Reading the ancient Egyptian religious texts, it is obvious where the God of fire & brimstone, expecting & accepting nothing less than perfection came into the Judeo Christian tradition. It is also obvious that probably nobody would ever meet this standard. The Paulian narrative brought a whole new possibility to the religion. Jesus, like his priest John the Baptist, made the experience of God available to sinners. Both Jesus & John baptised prostitutes, tax collectors, cripples & thieves. The suggestion here is that salvation cannot be by our own hand, or in return for a deed, but is a gift of the unseen hand to the humble & repentant sinner. Personally I think the schism is probably healthy. We are called to acknowledge our imperfection, yet to do good, not for a reward, but as a duty to Christ in reflecting his nature.

[wildbourgman]

Seagypsy, I kind of have the same philosophy. I think that if there is a God, that God is the same regardless of religion even though it appears differently within a certain religion. It doesn't matter what religion you are because that religion was just an avenue for your basic morals to develope. Good is good and bad is bad, it's not that difficult to tell the difference no matter what the doctrine dictates.

Many young earth folks that I know also believe that if you’re not born again Christians you automatically burn in hell no exceptions. So I'd ask about a little Outer Mongolian child that dies prior to being "born again" and never had the opportunity to even meet a Christian and they are like, yes they burn in hell too.

I told them that if that is true, then it's plain wrong, even if it is Gods standard. It's statements like that make more atheist than it does to help evangelize. I can't believe that and I can't believe in the young earth deal either. I also can't believe that all this is a massive coincidence.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'b')ut all three are intertwined & inter-dependant. Without creation, there is nothing to sustain, without sustenance, there is no time, without destruction, there is no rooms for new creation. Focus on the Overshoot Predator is much like what most Hindus do, putting Siva, the destroyer, topmost.

[SeaGypsy]

With you there all the way WBM. One of the main things to put me off evangelicals is the oft carried idea that if the disabled had true faith they would be healed, physically & permanently. To be honest I don't believe at all in this aspect of Christianity, the most dubious of all aspects of the bible- raising the dead, restoring sight to the blind etc. Snake oil in my book.

[ralfy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'R')alphy, get with the program dude. Your posts are totally off topic.

[SeaGypsy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'b')ut all three are intertwined & inter-dependant. Without creation, there is nothing to sustain, without sustenance, there is no time, without destruction, there is no rooms for new creation. Focus on the Overshoot Predator is much like what most Hindus do, putting Siva, the destroyer, topmost.

[Subjectivist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'W')ith you there all the way WBM. One of the main things to put me off evangelicals is the oft carried idea that if the disabled had true faith they would be healed, physically & permanently. To be honest I don't believe at all in this aspect of Christianity, the most dubious of all aspects of the bible- raising the dead, restoring sight to the blind etc. Snake oil in my book.

[SeaGypsy]

Yes Sub, I concur. I'm not saying all evangelicals hold the crazy dogma I described responding to WBM, just that it is too common & thoroughly offensive to me personally & to the experience I have personally of the spirit of Jesus. If the guy is a friend to you, not a bearded blond blue eyed idol, but the greatest, truest friend, it doesn't matter much what anyone thinks about it, or if the friendship experience mirrors the Jesus of the Bible in every aspect.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'I') haven't believed in God for a long, long time.

And I kinda think that, should there be a God, he wouldn't listen if I prayed, and he wouldn't really care about my beliefs. Actions? Maybe!

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', 'W')ithout my troubles I grow arrogant and full of myself. When I encounter the less fortunate I try to encourage and uplift them, not sneer and degrade. It is not my place to judge anyone, my role is to reach out in love and share my faith.

[SeaGypsy]

You supplant religion with pseudo science anyway 6 so there's not a lot of difference really, except you think you know & are being rational about things which to others appear unknowable & utterly irrational, like your thing with that jerk Hawking & your space nerd mate here KJ.

[Ibon]

Well, I appreciate the thoughtful posts here and maybe someone better informed can comment. I remember reading somewhere that christianity and other religions arose at a time of conflict and upheaval, in the case of christianity this would be the middle east some 2000 years ago.

I have been mentioning in past posts that our "overshoot" dilemma has a strong component as a spiritual deficit. If we take a look at the upcoming upheaval that will follow the consequences of human overshoot it would appear that we are entering into another one of these "biblical moments" where religions can be born or revolutionized.

Pork is forbidden in some religions because in biblical times pigs carried disease

In a similar way can excessive consumption that causes a die-off be forbidden as a tabu as religions pass through overshoot?

The analogy with pork is interesting because long after pork has been a health threat the tabu remains. Can we not have long lasting tabus away from unregulated consumption so that self regulation becomes embedded in our religious institutions following the draconion consequences of human overshoot?

That remains an open question but one I ponder often.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'Y')ou supplant religion with pseudo science anyway 6 so there's not a lot of difference really, except you think you know & are being rational about things which to others appear unknowable & utterly irrational, like your thing with that jerk Hawking & your space nerd mate here KJ.

[Quinny]

I am scientist and atheist, but believe that god is good.

[SeaGypsy]

I have no problem with mixing religion & science so long as the difference is acknowledged. Many scientists leave room in their hard rationality for a spiritual factor, even cause, to life. I do have a problem with utterly stupid ideas like espoused by the likes of KJ, Hawking, that us shaved monkeys should, could or would be in any way bettered by living eternally in a tin can artificial gravity in space. Besides stupid, it is horrid that anyone claiming any kind of care for the planet which has nurtured us to our existence is so worthless as to be seen as no more than a launching pad for this eternal fantasy man. This idea very strongly correlates to apocalyptic religion.

[wildbourgman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'W')ell, I appreciate the thoughtful posts here and maybe someone better informed can comment. I remember reading somewhere that christianity and other religions arose at a time of conflict and upheaval, in the case of christianity this would be the middle east some 2000 years ago.

I have been mentioning in past posts that our "overshoot" dilemma has a strong component as a spiritual deficit. If we take a look at the upcoming upheaval that will follow the consequences of human overshoot it would appear that we are entering into another one of these "biblical moments" where religions can be born or revolutionized.

Pork is forbidden in some religions because in biblical times pigs carried disease

In a similar way can excessive consumption that causes a die-off be forbidden as a tabu as religions pass through overshoot?

The analogy with pork is interesting because long after pork has been a health threat the tabu remains. Can we not have long lasting tabus away from unregulated consumption so that self regulation becomes embedded in our religious institutions following the draconion consequences of human overshoot?

That remains an open question but one I ponder often.

[dinopello]

This theory from physics about the origins of life is quite à propos for this site

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')rom the standpoint of physics, there is one essential difference between living things and inanimate clumps of carbon atoms: The former tend to be much better at capturing energy from their environment and dissipating that energy as heat.

Jeremy England, a 31-year-old assistant professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, has derived a mathematical formula that he believes explains this capacity. The formula, based on established physics, indicates that when a group of atoms is driven by an external source of energy (like the sun or chemical fuel) and surrounded by a heat bath (like the ocean or atmosphere), it will often gradually restructure itself in order to dissipate increasingly more energy. This could mean that under certain conditions, matter inexorably acquires the key physical attribute associated with life.

[SeaGypsy]

Whoopy doo! This proves nothing at all about the origins of life. If life can be made in a test tube from raw elements, post some evidence.

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'I')f life can be made in a test tube from raw elements, post some evidence.