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Creationism

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Creationism

Postby wildbourgman » Tue 09 Dec 2014, 01:19:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'B')loody hell mate. Do a synonym search for 'free'. The word 'regulation' will not be there. The only free market is the black market.

You just don't get the fact that growth virtually always occurs in some areas, while decline happens in others. Nobody compels investment, with the sole exception of mandated retirement funds, 401k, Aus Super etc. investment is at the discretion of the investor. Most of the economy can go down the toilet, overall growth can vanish, without at all affecting capitalism as the mainstay of the economic system.

Sick of this crap. Have fun anyone who can be bothered.


I agree and I think I've said all I have to say unless someone re-directs the conversation. I'm going to be real busy for the next few days. No rest for the wicked!
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Re: Creationism

Postby Newfie » Tue 09 Dec 2014, 18:45:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DesuMaiden', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wildbourgman', 'H')ere's a better question what percentage of the American population know what oil is ?

I am pretty sure everyone knows what oil is.
You might be surprised how superficial their understanding it. (Oil might come from the olden times, around 6,000 BC if I am not mistaken.) But I'd be willing to bet most believe it was dinosaurs. And kids with rodeo hats. :lol:

Image


OK then, lets go back to the OP shall we.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Earth_creationism

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')oung Earth creationism (YEC) is the religious belief[1] that the Universe, Earth and all life on Earth were created by direct acts of God during a relatively short period, between 5,700 and 10,000 years ago.[2] Its primary adherents are those Christians and Jews[3] who, using a literal interpretation of the Genesis creation narrative as a basis, believe that God created the Earth in six 24-hour days.[4][5] Young Earth creationists differ from other creationists in that they believe in a strict literal interpretation of the Bible regarding the age of the Earth. This contrasts with old Earth creationists, who believe that the six creation days of the Book of Genesis may be interpreted metaphorically and who accept the scientifically determined age of Earth and the universe.[6]
Since the mid-20th century, young Earth creationists starting with Henry M. Morris have devised and promoted a pseudoscientific explanation called "creation science" as a basis for a religious belief in a supernatural, geologically recent creation.[7] Young Earth creationism is contradicted by scientific evidence from numerous scientific disciplines that shows the age of the universe is 13.798±0.037 billion years, the formation of the Earth was 4.5 billion years ago, and life first appeared on Earth at least 2.5 billion years ago.[8][9][10][11]
Since 1982, between 40% and 50% of adults in the United States say they hold the view that "God created humans in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years" when Gallup asked for their views on the origin and development of human beings.[12] A 2011 Gallup survey reports that 30% of U.S. adults say they interpret the Bible literally.[13] These beliefs are often contradictory. A 2009 poll by Harris Interactive found that 39% of Americans agreed with the statement that "God created the universe, the earth, the sun, moon, stars, plants, animals, and the first two people within the past 10 000 years", yet only 18% of those same Americans agreed with the statement "The earth is less than 10 000 years old".[14]


http://ncse.com/blog/2013/11/just-how-m ... us-0015164

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')round 44% have consistently endorsed that last option, a consistent 37% take the middle option (which could cover beliefs in intelligent design, various forms of old-earth creationisms, or theistic evolution), and about 12% back a nontheistic evolutionary account. This breakdown has been remarkably consistent over the decades......................

...............In short, then, the hard core of young-earth creationists represents at most one in ten Americans—maybe about 31 million people—with another quarter favoring creationism but not necessarily committed to a young earth. One or two in ten seem firmly committed to evolution, and another third leans heavily toward evolution. About a third of the public in the middle are open to evolution, but feel strongly that a god or gods must have been involved somehow, and wind up in different camps depending how a given poll is worded.


So it sounds like about 20% understand evolution enough to understand where oil comes from. Then there are about 30% who may well have an idea about it but feel God guided things. The rest lean strongly toward some type of Young Earth doctrine.

Of the 50% who have a mind set open to the scientific concept of oil developing over millions of years what percentage actually have some real concept of it and how many have never really considered the question?

But at MOST the answer is something less than 50%. Maybe much less.
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Re: Creationism

Postby Subjectivist » Tue 09 Dec 2014, 19:02:57

Indeed. Seems how this thread is sort of as mch my fault as anyone else's I will pipe up again. I am an old earth creationist. My wife and I visited the creation museum in the picture, I found it very dissipointing. There are plenty of Christians who do not consider science the enemy of faith, but the media always focus their attention on the young earth anti science members of my or other faiths.
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Re: Creationism

Postby wildbourgman » Tue 09 Dec 2014, 19:19:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', 'I')ndeed. Seems how this thread is sort of as mch my fault as anyone else's I will pipe up again. I am an old earth creationist. My wife and I visited the creation museum in the picture, I found it very dissipointing. There are plenty of Christians who do not consider science the enemy of faith, but the media always focus their attention on the young earth anti science members of my or other faiths.



My thought is that I can't rule out some being either alien or spirit that is the initial creator. I've never heard any other evidence that gave me another logical conclusion. I have never seen life created thin air or rock. Intelligent design is the camp I'm in right now. If I get more evidence I may change my mind or strenthen my belief. It's certainly not something I'd strap a bomb to myself for and I'm certainly not offended by Christmas scenes in the public square. I'm fairly laid back on that issue. So maybe I'll say I'm a South Louisiana cajun old earth intelligent design creationist. What else can I add?
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Re: Creationism

Postby yeahbut » Tue 09 Dec 2014, 19:20:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', 'I')ndeed. Seems how this thread is sort of as mch my fault as anyone else's I will pipe up again. I am an old earth creationist. My wife and I visited the creation museum in the picture, I found it very dissipointing. There are plenty of Christians who do not consider science the enemy of faith, but the media always focus their attention on the young earth anti science members of my or other faiths.


Hi Sub, as a totally non-religious person, I am not familiar with the term old earth creationist- could you explain what that means? I'm genuinely curious, not taking the piss. Cheers
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Re: Creationism

Postby Subjectivist » Tue 09 Dec 2014, 19:45:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yeahbut', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', 'I')ndeed. Seems how this thread is sort of as mch my fault as anyone else's I will pipe up again. I am an old earth creationist. My wife and I visited the creation museum in the picture, I found it very dissipointing. There are plenty of Christians who do not consider science the enemy of faith, but the media always focus their attention on the young earth anti science members of my or other faiths.


Hi Sub, as a totally non-religious person, I am not familiar with the term old earth creationist- could you explain what that means? I'm genuinely curious, not taking the piss. Cheers


Sure! I have experienced things in my life that cause me to have faith and I believe in the Christian Bible. Of the many many lessons given in the Bible is the concept that God exists outside of linear time, God always was, is now, and always will be because time is no obstacle for God. This understanding is reinforced by other statements such as a Day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is as a day. There is also the belief that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord and that those who are dead are resting on earth. This happens because when your soul goes where God is it too is outside of linear time.

Young Earth Creationists believe God created Earth in six days as stated in Genesis and so do I. I do not believe God who is was and always will be used 24 hour days. A day for God is whatever length He needs it too be, be that 24 hours or a Billion years on a human time scale. If the Universe is around 14 Billion years old then Creations days are about 2 Billion years long each.

To me claiming the Earth is only 6000-10000 years old is trying to limit God, who has no limits.
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Re: Creationism

Postby wildbourgman » Tue 09 Dec 2014, 20:33:37

Subjectivist, I often tell young Earth creationist that in my opionion it's are sacrilegious to believe that God's capabilities are limited by my imagination and knowledge. How do we know God is not the ultimate scientist?
Although, I'm not as faithful because I have a hard time with the relationship between doctrine, dogma and contridictions with other beliefs that I hold.
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Re: Creationism

Postby SeaGypsy » Tue 09 Dec 2014, 20:34:56

I read the Bible umpteen times as a teenager, certainly an interesting set of books. But I also did years of reading in comparative theology. I find value in most religions. Even the only one I hate, Islam, has one of my favourite stories in theology, where Mohammed speaks of a shipwreck survived by only a newborn baby. The child is raised by wild animals, the Koran says 'perhaps by apes, perhaps by dogs, but this child never hears a word spoken.' He asks his followers whether this child would have knowledge of God (Allah). They are apparently dumbfounded when Mohammed says 'I tell you this child, even never rescued from the wilderness, will have perfect knowledge of Allah all it's life'.

One of my favourite lineages is that of Srila Prabhupad, founder of ISKCON, who first translated the Bhagavad Gita with full purports. He challenged science to prove that there was some basis in the 'primordial soup' version of creation. He stated the fact that never has life been created by man from raw elements, in any conditions. He was correct. It still hasn't & I doubt it ever will.
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Re: Creationism

Postby Newfie » Tue 09 Dec 2014, 21:08:20

I haven't believed in God for a long, long time.

And I kinda think that, should there be a God, he wouldn't listen if I prayed, and he wouldn't really care about my beliefs. Actions? Maybe!
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Re: Creationism

Postby ralfy » Tue 09 Dec 2014, 21:24:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'B')loody hell mate. Do a synonym search for 'free'. The word 'regulation' will not be there. The only free market is the black market.

You just don't get the fact that growth virtually always occurs in some areas, while decline happens in others. Nobody compels investment, with the sole exception of mandated retirement funds, 401k, Aus Super etc. investment is at the discretion of the investor. Most of the economy can go down the toilet, overall growth can vanish, without at all affecting capitalism as the mainstay of the economic system.

Sick of this crap. Have fun anyone who can be bothered.


Not just a black market but also a barter system. That's what results when free market capitalist systems, which involve government and private corporations, fall apart.

Growth happens in some areas and losses in others, but the overall result is still growth. That's why money supply, energy and resource consumption, and global GDP have all been in an upward trend. That's why businesses want more sales and workers higher pay. That's why consumers eagerly await sales, look for the latest gadgets to buy, and so on. That's how people are able to access this board, among others.

Results from such systems are peak oil, financial crashes due to speculation, and environmental damage coupled with global warming. See the other threads in this forum for detail.
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Re: Creationism

Postby SeaGypsy » Tue 09 Dec 2014, 21:30:30

The word 'God' comes from the German, the root word for 'gut' as in goodness. Martin Luther, the Calvinist & master linguist, used the word God, meaning 'cause or source of goodness' when translating the Ancient Greek & Aramaic into any language which previously had a plural or feminine archetype for the creator. Any language which retained it's own word in this place, was already monotheistic & patriarchal. This relates to the meaning of the Hebrew Tetragrammaton, YHWH, which gave rise to the names Yahweh & Jahovah. The Hebrew/ Aramaic meaning of which is something along the lines of the 'spirit hosting over the host' giving rise to terms such as 'Lord of Hosts'. The implication of the Y is interesting in the sense that it is not gendered. Being the opening insignia, this implies not a patriarch but a gender neutral spiritual being. The old word 'Elohim' means those descended from the stars', is again gender neutral & plural, suggesting the ancient Jews had a very different idea of who/ what 'God' was/is.
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Re: Creationism

Postby SeaGypsy » Tue 09 Dec 2014, 21:32:09

Ralphy, get with the program dude. Your posts are totally off topic.
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Re: Creationism

Postby Sixstrings » Wed 10 Dec 2014, 06:12:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'H')e stated the fact that never has life been created by man from raw elements, in any conditions. He was correct. It still hasn't & I doubt it ever will.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/Miller-Urey_experiment-en.svg/350px-Miller-Urey_experiment-en.svg.png[/img]

The Miller–Urey experiment[1] (or Miller experiment)[2] was a chemical experiment that simulated the conditions thought at the time to be present on the early Earth, and tested the chemical origin of life. Specifically, the experiment tested Alexander Oparin's and J. B. S. Haldane's hypothesis that conditions on the primitive Earth favored chemical reactions that synthesized more complex organic compounds from simpler inorganic precursors.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller%E2%80%93Urey_experiment
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Re: Creationism

Postby SeaGypsy » Wed 10 Dec 2014, 06:37:16

Whatever 6. It has not been done & never will. Probably the greatest mysteries.
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Re: Creationism

Postby wildbourgman » Wed 10 Dec 2014, 08:53:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'W')hatever 6. It has not been done & never will. Probably the greatest mysteries.


And that is the chink in an Atheist armor isn't it? Agnostisism seems much more prudent and humble.
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Re: Creationism

Postby Subjectivist » Wed 10 Dec 2014, 10:48:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wildbourgman', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'W')hatever 6. It has not been done & never will. Probably the greatest mysteries.


And that is the chink in an Atheist armor isn't it? Agnostisism seems much more prudent and humble.


When I was 14 I thought I had had a terrible unfair childhood and declared myself an Atheist. When I was 16 I realized my Atheism was just as much an act of faith as my poorly formed theism had been in earlier years and I called myself Agnostic because I wasn't sure who was right. Over the next ten years of rough sledding I came to believe in Christ, slowly and with much time spent thinking about it. At 27 I became a commited believer.

If I am wrong and the Atheists are right then I get great comfort from my faith while I am alive and when I die I cease to exist. If I am right and the Atheists are wrong then when I die I go before the judgement throne and explain my actions and thoughts to my Lord and receive justice. The Atheists will be right there with me explaining themselves as well. If I am following an incorrect faith and get judged for my actions rather than my beliefs I hope that whomever is doing the judging finds my efforts more good than ill and metes out justice accordingly.

I believe my faith is correct and I am Subject to my King, Jesus the Christ. If I am deluding myself then I am comfortable in my delusion.
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Re: Creationism

Postby DesuMaiden » Wed 10 Dec 2014, 10:50:39

Creationism? More like cretinism lol!
History repeats itself. Just everytime with different characters and players.
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Re: Creationism

Postby SeaGypsy » Wed 10 Dec 2014, 13:19:21

Me, raised Atheist by lapsed Cattle Ticks, Baptised Eastern Orthodox at 24, initiated Mahayana Buddhist at 28, Hare K initiate at 38, plus etc as above; knowledge, almost nothing; interest, never waning.
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Re: Creationism

Postby Ibon » Wed 10 Dec 2014, 16:06:32

I believe in The Overshoot Predator and as George Carlin once said my God has a bigger Dxxk than any of your guys gods so watch out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-WWXTpH0E0

This is meant as humor but I will delete this if anyone takes offense
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Re: Creationism

Postby SeaGypsy » Wed 10 Dec 2014, 18:28:37

Ibon, this is somewhat evasive of you. The Overshoot Predator is about the end game, while this thread is about the beginning.

In the Hindu pantheon, the primary 3 gods are: Vishnu, the creator, Brahma the sustainer, Siva the destroyer. Depending which of these three an Hindu is brought up in, one of the three will be projected as the ultimate, but all three are intertwined & inter-dependant. Without creation, there is nothing to sustain, without sustenance, there is no time, without destruction, there is no rooms for new creation. Focus on the Overshoot Predator is much like what most Hindus do, putting Siva, the destroyer, topmost.
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