[Plantagenet]

Some schools take kids on fieldtrips to farms so they can learn there is more to food then the plastic wrapped trays they see in their local supermarkets.

Seems like U.S. schools need to take kids on fieldtrips to oilfields and drill rigs and core sheds and refineries and conference rooms with geologists, geophysicists and engineers so they can learn there is more to oil then the gas pumps they see at their local gas stations.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zentric', ' ')Let's just say that you've clearly razed the standards of debate, Monte. I'm bowing out.

[Pops]

nice discussion

kudos

proves monte's point

we are all gonna die

again, thanks

[MonteQuest]

Folks, the fact is there is just 'no evidence' to support claims of gouging, now, or for the last 20 years.

FTC Releases Report on its “Investigation of Gasoline Price Manipulation and Post-Katrina Gasoline Price Increases”

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')uring the time period examined, the Commission found:

No evidence to suggest that refiners manipulated prices through any means, including running their refineries below full productive capacity to restrict supply, altering their refinery output to produce less gasoline, or diverting gasoline from markets in the United States to less lucrative foreign markets. The evidence indicated that these firms produced as much gasoline as they economically could, using computer models to determine their most profitable slate of products.


No evidence to suggest that refinery expansion decisions over the past 20 years resulted from either unilateral or coordinated attempts to manipulate prices. Rather, the pace of capacity growth resulted from competitive market forces.


No evidence to suggest that petroleum pipeline companies made rate or expansion decisions in order to manipulate gasoline prices.


No evidence to suggest that oil companies reduced inventory to increase or manipulate prices or exacerbate the effects of price spikes generally, or due to hurricane-related supply disruptions in particular. Inventory levels have declined, but the decline represents a decades-long trend to lower costs that is consistent with other manufacturing industries. In setting inventory levels, companies try to plan for unexpected supply disruptions by examining supply needs from past disruptions.


No situations that might allow one firm – or a small collusive group – to manipulate gasoline futures prices by using storage assets to restrict gasoline movements into New York Harbor, the key delivery point for gasoline futures contracts.

[evilgenius]

To go on the record I don't believe in gouging either. My dad swears up and down that 'those oil companies are rigging everything'. I used reason, but I couldn't get him to listen to it. Look I know there is collusion and corruption in big business, but I think the problem is more structural, allowing individuals to glean too much from other's would be profits, than hidden. Why would they cheat, in other words, when they have it so good without cheating.

It is the structural malaise, I believe, that has contributed so much to pushing the oil industry to a state where they are now so far behind the ball when it comes to infrastructure sophistication. The same principle applies to any industry when executives make decisions that seemingly aren't in the best long term interests of a company, ie firing too many people, in order to boost their stock option's value. Sustainability becomes less of an option when growth is absolutely essential to the executive's idea of what success means for a company. Yeah, sure, growth is good where it is the nature of the business, but not where it would be best practice to achieve sustainability and pay dividends as a way of bringing return to the owners. Change, however, isn't going to happen in a corporate environment where the only choice a stockholder has when it comes to how earnings are handled is to sell or hold.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'F')olks, the fact is there is just 'no evidence' to support claims of gouging, now, or for the last 20 years.

FTC Releases Report on its “Investigation of Gasoline Price Manipulation and Post-Katrina Gasoline Price Increases”

[threadbear]

I started another thread called "Blowing the Whistle on Big Oil" which addresses the idea of conspiracy very well. Whether it's germaine to supply issues, I don't know. Perhaps not. It does however highlight collusion between govt watchdog agencies and oil corporations, and involves up to 7 billion dollars worth of basically stolen money from the American people. The article is from the New York Times. I'm surprised more people haven't commented on it.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'E')vidence? Same goes for you, pstarr.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'I') started another thread called "Blowing the Whistle on Big Oil" which addresses the idea of conspiracy very well. Whether it's germaine to supply issues, I don't know. Perhaps not. It does however highlight collusion between govt watchdog agencies and oil corporations, and involves up to 7 billion dollars worth of basically stolen money from the American people. The article is from the New York Times. I'm surprised more people haven't commented on it.

[Rogozhin]

The truly ironic piece of the 'peak oil' pie is that none of our source material is truly 'primary'.

Rogo