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Why do Neo Nazi's have a love affair with Peak oil?

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Why do Neo Nazi's have a love affair with Peak oil?

Postby Plantagenet » Wed 27 Jun 2007, 15:11:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('holmes', 'a')lso to the see the big business universities collapse into rubble. Oh how I despise these universities...


"After all manner of professors have done their best for us, the place we are to get knowledge is in books. The true university of these days is a collection of books. "

--Albert Camus 8)
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Re: Why do Neo Nazi's have a love affair with Peak oil?

Postby Grifter » Wed 27 Jun 2007, 18:24:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')"After all manner of professors have done their best for us, the place we are to get knowledge is in books. The true university of these days is a collection of books. "

--Albert Camus 8)


He was a fantastic goalkeeper.
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Re: Why do Neo Nazi's have a love affair with Peak oil?

Postby Plantagenet » Wed 27 Jun 2007, 18:36:47

Not a bad philosopher, either. 8)
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Re: Why do Neo Nazi's have a love affair with Peak oil?

Postby threadbear » Wed 27 Jun 2007, 20:56:10

It all started with the thread about colonics and cleansing of the digestive tract, (to put it delicately). That thread started a movement. :lol:

These forums are frequented by a large minority of tight assed white people obsessed with purity of...thought, of race, of religion. Their xenophobia extends from their bowels into the far reaches of exotic locales. As much as they worry about their potential for harbouring tapeworms, so do they worry about the planet providing shelter for human "parasites".

It would be funny if this kind of thinking wasn't potentially so deadly.
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Re: Why do Neo Nazi's have a love affair with Peak oil?

Postby CrudeAwakening » Wed 27 Jun 2007, 21:18:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('perdition79', 'I') think the Neo-Nazis enjoy the idea of Peak Oil as an opportunity. History repeating itself, as it were. The Nazis were able to rise to power as a result of the economic destruction WWI brought upon Germany. Peak Oil will be a more massive and thorough societal destruction than the Weimar hyperinflation was, and the resulting chaos will enable the disillusioned masses to listen to whatever voice happens to be promising better times ahead. Back then, that voice was the Nazis. It worked back then, so the Neo-Nazis probably figure it's worth another try.

Thanks for the on-topic post, I think you're getting closer to answering the OP's question.
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Re: Why do Neo Nazi's have a love affair with Peak oil?

Postby undertaker » Wed 27 Jun 2007, 22:16:08

Yep, Peak Oil is going to be time to all get medieval on each other.

There's just so much pent up hostility. As for me, I'm going to finish off the bonobos, LOL. The jungle is the property of PAN F'ING TROGLODYTE, warrior monkey. Bonobos are stealing the oxygen!
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Re: Why do Neo Nazi's have a love affair with Peak oil?

Postby TWilliam » Thu 28 Jun 2007, 15:26:23

Been giving this issue a bit more thought. Like it or not, there are genetic differences between races, and intelligence is at least partly influenced by genetic factors. All the PC histrionics in the world will not change that fact.

Peak oil is a complex issue that apparently requires better than average cognitive function to comprehend with any depth (as most of us who have tried explaining it to others have likely noticed), and tho' of course there are always individual exceptions, I think it's pretty obvious why an apparently large percentage of PO visitors have separatist leanings.

It generally takes better than average intelligence to understand why forcing integration upon people who don't want to be integrated is a bad idea as well. Unfortunately, many don't grok that there is a difference between hate (or more accurately, fear) - based separatism and separatism based on an understanding of the issues involved.
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Re: Why do Neo Nazi's have a love affair with Peak oil?

Postby kabu » Thu 28 Jun 2007, 18:09:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', 'B')een giving this issue a bit more thought. Like it or not, there are genetic differences between races, and intelligence is at least partly influenced by genetic factors. All the PC histrionics in the world will not change that fact.
As far as I know, penis size is completely influenced by genetic factors, and intelligence partly. Many believe there to be a relationship between the size of these two animals. However, I have yet to see a competently-run, Scientific study proving a negative correlation between the two.

Same goes for your assertion. This sort of genetic "overlap" is possible, but unproven (as far as I know).

Anyhow, the word for today is "onus", m'kay?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', 'P')eak oil is a complex issue that apparently requires better than average cognitive function to comprehend with any depth (as most of us who have tried explaining it to others have likely noticed)...

I completely disagree. Not much intelligence is required for the peak oil concept, at all. It's far, far more of an emotional matter, in my opinion. Sorta like religion. It doesn't take smarts to challenge the belief that we're safe from a looming energy crisis; all people needs is an emotional motive that compels them to pay attention to what is actually a very simple argument backed up by transparent claims. You've just got to LOOK at it with an open, objective mind.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', 'I')t generally takes better than average intelligence to understand why forcing integration upon people who don't want to be integrated is a bad idea as well. Unfortunately, many don't grok that there is a difference between hate (or more accurately, fear) - based separatism and separatism based on an understanding of the issues involved.
The concept of general intelligence was not developed to have anything to do with either of the two things you brought up; it was meant to predict how students will perform in the academic subjects at school. And although it has been refined, over and over, to become LESS culturally biased and whatnot, the concept of a g intelligence is actually very much obsolete in the field that actually spawned it, psychology.

Studies done on savants and patients with very specific forms of brain damage have yielded tons of information supporting the idea that there are eight or so specific forms of intelligence.

And as an aside, lots of work has been done on concept of a person's E(emotional)Q, which, I hear- haven't looked at it myself- has proven itself a far greater a predictor of future success in school or work, when measured against general intelligence.
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Re: Why do Neo Nazi's have a love affair with Peak oil?

Postby Plantagenet » Thu 28 Jun 2007, 19:41:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kabu', '.').. a person's E(emotional)Q, which, I hear- haven't looked at it myself- has proven itself a far greater a predictor of future success in school or work, when measured against general intelligence.


Nope.

IQ is still the best predictor of success in school. Smart people tend to do well, and dumb people tend to not do so well in school. 8)
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Re: Why do Neo Nazi's have a love affair with Peak oil?

Postby kabu » Thu 28 Jun 2007, 20:36:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kabu', '.').. a person's E(emotional)Q, which, I hear- haven't looked at it myself- has proven itself a far greater a predictor of future success in school or work, when measured against general intelligence.


Nope.

IQ is still the best predictor of success in school. Smart people tend to do well, and dumb people tend to not do so well in school. 8)

As if I'd take your word for it... I think I'll go with a former professor's word over yours, thanks.

The tasks in school aren't... intellectually exclusive. And if you don't have to have an above-average IQ to complete most of the tasks in school, then obviously other factors would come into play when it comes to sorting out the successful from the unsuccessful. A high IQ well help you get into a MENSA club, or something like that, but there's way, way more to what you go through in school than is measured by that test, and lots of that affects how you fair, on paper. Many of those variables just happened to be measured by EQ, that's all.
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Re: Why do Neo Nazi's have a love affair with Peak oil?

Postby Plantagenet » Thu 28 Jun 2007, 20:43:35

Of course other factors play significant roles.

But the fact remains that IQ is a good predictor of success in school across large groups of applicants. Folks with high IQs tend to do well, and folks with low IQs don't do so well.

Thats why colleges require SAT tests and grad schools required GREs etc.
The general tests are IQ tests----and are usually more reliable then the inflated grades given today to determine who is talented and who isn't.

If you don't know your own IQ, take your SAT scores, add them together and divide by 10. For instance, if you scored perfect 800s, then your total is 1600...divide by 10 gives an IQ of 160 (i.e. a genius level IQ three standard deviations above the mean). If you scored 500s, then your IQ is 100 (average) and you aren't going to get into MENSA.

CHEERS! 8)
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Re: Why do Neo Nazi's have a love affair with Peak oil?

Postby ClassicSpiderman » Thu 28 Jun 2007, 21:22:04

White supremacists embrace peak oil because when it's effects are in full force, it will be the trigger event that brings down what they view is a decadent society that deserves to be destroyed. Access to cheap energy is making everyone more "liberal" and even allowing foreigners (not white) to live amongst them.

Every advance in regards to "human rights" can be attributed to advances in technology and discovery of energy sources. The industrial revolution brought the abolishment of slavery. White collar jobs in large cosmopolitan centers (which employ many women) would be physically impossible without the automobile and the transportation infrastructure.

The white supremacist movement is frustrated by the apathy displayed by other whites who know they're being arse-raped with affirmative action quotas and 24/7 diversity propaganda, but they're still relatively comfortable compared to their ancestors who were nothing more than serfs a few centuries earlier. Bread and circuses keeps the white rabble in tow, so to speak.

The fragile multicultural utopia is held together by fossil fuels. When the manure hits the fan, the whole diversity house of cards comes tumbling down. Racial tensions (ala Rodney King riots) will explode and whites will either (A) submissively surrender while getting their throats cut or (B) toughen up, "wake up" from their slumber and fight back.
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Re: Why do Neo Nazi's have a love affair with Peak oil?

Postby kabu » Fri 29 Jun 2007, 00:32:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'O')f course other factors play significant roles.

But the fact remains that IQ is a good predictor of success in school across large groups of applicants. Folks with high IQs tend to do well, and folks with low IQs don't do so well.

Thats why colleges require SAT tests and grad schools required GREs etc.
The general tests are IQ tests----and are usually more reliable then the inflated grades given today to determine who is talented and who isn't.

If you don't know your own IQ, take your SAT scores, add them together and divide by 10. For instance, if you scored perfect 800s, then your total is 1600...divide by 10 gives an IQ of 160 (i.e. a genius level IQ three standard deviations above the mean). If you scored 500s, then your IQ is 100 (average) and you aren't going to get into MENSA.

CHEERS! 8)

I never said that it wasn't a good predictor; EQ is just, allegedly, better. I'm not going to insist on it, though, because I haven't actually looked at the research myself.

And I'm speaking in general, of course. If we were talking about the hard sciences, then I'd probably trust IQ as a better predictor- I'd still like to see the research though- but frankly why not just go by them both, in this case. IQ tests generally call into question one's mathematical/logical intelligence, so they'd certainly be relevant.

But, IQ tests are most helpful when it comes to providing early assistance to students with an IQ significantly below 100. That's what they were originally intended for.
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Re: Why do Neo Nazi's have a love affair with Peak oil?

Postby I_Like_Plants » Fri 29 Jun 2007, 00:36:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', 'B')een giving this issue a bit more thought. Like it or not, there are genetic differences between races, and intelligence is at least partly influenced by genetic factors. All the PC histrionics in the world will not change that fact.



And what makes you think White type intelligence is the correct kind for sustainability?

There's better evidence that Indian type intelligence (India) or Tikopia type intelligence is the kind to go with. Bushman or Aus. Aborigine type anyone? They have far better records than Whites do.
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Re: Why do Neo Nazi's have a love affair with Peak oil?

Postby TWilliam » Fri 29 Jun 2007, 00:57:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kabu', 'A')nyhow, the word for today is "onus", m'kay?


Hmmm yes well... I'll leave the proof of the matter to those who get paid to formulate such. Anyway, I didn't say (nor do I believe that I implied) that intelligence was purely genetic, I just indicated that there were genetic factors involved. Environment certainly plays a role as well, but given our current level of understanding in genetics and related fields, I don't think this is an unreasonable assertion to make. Just because we can't point to a specific gene and say "that one determines intelligence" doesn't, imo at least, undermine said assertion.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kabu', 'N')ot much intelligence is required for the peak oil concept, at all. It's far, far more of an emotional matter, in my opinion. Sorta like religion. It doesn't take smarts to challenge the belief that we're safe from a looming energy crisis; all people needs is an emotional motive that compels them to pay attention to what is actually a very simple argument backed up by transparent claims. You've just got to LOOK at it with an open, objective mind.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he concept of general intelligence was not developed to have anything to do with either of the two things you brought up; it was meant to predict how students will perform in the academic subjects at school. And although it has been refined, over and over, to become LESS culturally biased and whatnot, the concept of a g intelligence is actually very much obsolete in the field that actually spawned it, psychology.


See now here's part of the larger issue of "what is intelligence". If you notice, I didn't mention IQ because to me, intelligence is something much broader and deeper than merely what's measured by standard tests. It has only a peripheral relationship to "experiential", or "book" knowledge, and encompasses things like the ability to make meaningful connections between various facts, to draw conclusions, to see "bigger pictures", to project outcomes, the "EQ" which you mention, etc.

This is why I maintain that it requires a higher than average level of intelligence to truly understand peak oil. Yes, the basic concept of production midpoint is pretty easy to grasp, but fathoming the implications is another matter entirely.

I agree that an open and objective mindset is helpful in this regard, but I've noticed over the years that there seems to be a direct correlation between degree of objective open mindedness and intelligence. Dull-witted people tend to be rather narrow minded from what I've seen. Mind you, that's not to say that highly intelligent people can't be closed minded as well, but in my experience it seems that intelligence and open mindedness generally go together.
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Re: Why do Neo Nazi's have a love affair with Peak oil?

Postby I_Like_Plants » Fri 29 Jun 2007, 01:01:35

Good essey on Nazism by Joe Bageant....

http://www.joebageant.com/joe/2007/06/s ... llies.html

Personally, when there's competition, the general trend is for animals to get more intelligent. I think the winners in the future, if any humans survive, will be a nice muddy color, and an amalgamation of what works from a large number of races.
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Re: Why do Neo Nazi's have a love affair with Peak oil?

Postby kabu » Fri 29 Jun 2007, 01:24:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kabu', 'A')nyhow, the word for today is "onus", m'kay?


Hmmm yes well... I'll leave the proof of the matter to those who get paid to formulate such. Anyway, I didn't say (nor do I believe that I implied) that intelligence was purely genetic, I just indicated that there were genetic factors involved. Environment certainly plays a role as well, but given our current level of understanding in genetics and related fields, I don't think this is an unreasonable assertion to make. Just because we can't point to a specific gene and say "that one determines intelligence" doesn't, imo at least, undermine said assertion.

Oh, I already agreed with ya there. My sis has a BA in genetics, and she's already gone on about the dozen+ genes that play a massive role in someone's IQ.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', 'S')ee now here's part of the larger issue of "what is intelligence". If you notice, I didn't mention IQ because to me, intelligence is something much broader and deeper than merely what's measured by standard tests. It has only a peripheral relationship to "experiential", or "book" knowledge, and encompasses things like the ability to make meaningful connections between various facts, to draw conclusions, to see "bigger pictures", to project outcomes, the "EQ" which you mention, etc.

This is why I maintain that it requires a higher than average level of intelligence to truly understand peak oil. Yes, the basic concept of production midpoint is pretty easy to grasp, but fathoming the implications is another matter entirely.

Ok, what you've just described is what I refer to as wisdom. If you ask me, EQ certainly comes into play when it comes to obtaining wisdom, too. So you can guess that I also believe that the wiser will better grasp and prepare for peak oil.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', 'I') agree that an open and objective mindset is helpful in this regard, but I've noticed over the years that there seems to be a direct correlation between degree of objective open mindedness and intelligence. Dull-witted people tend to be rather narrow minded from what I've seen. Mind you, that's not to say that highly intelligent people can't be closed minded as well, but in my experience it seems that intelligence and open mindedness generally go together.

I haven't noticed this myself...

Anyhow, it's something we can only speculate about.
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Re: Why do Neo Nazi's have a love affair with Peak oil?

Postby TWilliam » Fri 29 Jun 2007, 01:49:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', 'A')nd what makes you think White type intelligence is the correct kind for sustainability?


I never said it was... :wink:

On the other hand,

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here's better evidence that Indian type intelligence (India) or Tikopia type intelligence is the kind to go with. Bushman or Aus. Aborigine type anyone? They have far better records than Whites do.


don't make the (common) mistake of assuming that the inability to trash the global environment equates to sustainable stewardship. Slash and burn agriculture is still used in areas of India (tho' less so than historically) as well as by the Australian Aborigines.

Hunting/gathering like the Bushmen or Tikopians is only viable with limited population density, hence the infanticide practiced historically by both groups. Good luck convincing the pro-lifers to embrace that lifestyle... :lol:

In point of fact, it is only in White-created technological society that the awareness has even arisen of the need for sustainable practices. Technological culture could have developed sustainable methodologies for supporting much larger populations indefinitely than your vaunted "primitives" could ever have imagined. The only thing preventing it from doing so now is the firm entrenchment of our collective primitive greed and self-interest as it's motivating force.
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