[MonteQuest]

One of the things that has continuously puzzled me is that amongst the optimistic solutions posited to solve hydrocarbon depletion, I see an assumption that we have, or will have, the time to mitigate the consequences of peak oil. Mitigation, of any sort, will take time and a lot of money. And it will have to be applied world-wide, not just in the first world.

The Hirsch Report details that we need a 10-20 year crash mitigation plan in place before the peak.

The only crash plan I see in place at the moment is one to escalate the debt beyond the comprehension of man.

If it takes decades to prepare for this, and we have just a few years at best by most accounts and predictions, why is it that people continue to think complex, technical, and highly capital intensive solutions can be developed and implemented literally overnight?

{edit: literally overnight is a hyperbole}

If peak oil is at our door, and in planning terms—tomorrow, are we not beyond the point of no return?

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'T')he only crash plan I see in place at the moment is one to escalate the debt beyond the comprehension of man.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'T')he only crash plan I see in place at the moment is one to escalate the debt beyond the comprehension of man.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'A')re we really just lemmings?

[bl00k]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')If it takes decades to prepare for this, and we have just a few years at best by most accounts and predictions, why is it that people continue to think complex, technical, and highly capital intensive solutions can be developed and implemented literally overnight?

If peak oil is at our door, and in planning terms—tomorrow, are we not beyond the point of no return?

[Colorado-Valley]

Gov. Schweitzer told me on "60" minutes he'd provide all the coal gasoline we want for $1 a gallon.

My wingnut friend at the coffee table this morning told me that we'd just build pebble-bed reactors and make all the hydrogen we'll ever need.

President Bush says we'll just switch to wood chips and switch grass.

My local paper informed me that there would be no energy problems if the environmentalists would just quit protecting the Arctic Wildlife Refuge from drilling.

Nobody mentioned conservation ...

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', ' ')The rats leaving the sinking ship is a good metaphor, they've given up hope on making the world a better place and just seeing what they can do to get themselves higher up the ladder to add some security to what ever turns out.

[JoeCoal]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'T')he free market is our enemy, not our friend. The lure of profit can not be the driving and guiding force for a post peak oil world.

[holmes]

Thats the biggest thing for me right now: taxes. Give us all our money so at least the ones who want to invest in an ecological paradigm can invest ALL our earnings into it. Im finding out tho that even the most ardent "haters" of the current paradigm. the ones screaming constantly about how bad it is do not seem to want choices on taxes. Im not sure why. In my opinion its all we can do right now is invest all our extra earnings into sustainable systems. we cant do that now and have to stay in the lemmings march for longer.

[holmes]

yes we are at the point of no return.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('holmes', '[')Y]es[,] we are at the point of no return.

[holmes]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('holmes', '[')Y]es[,] we are at the point of no return.

[holmes]

We are parasitic lemmings!

[whereagles]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')If peak oil is at our door, and in planning terms—tomorrow, are we not beyond the point of no return?

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('holmes', 'T')hats the biggest thing for me right now: taxes. Give us all our money so at least the ones who want to invest in an ecological paradigm can invest ALL our earnings into it. Im finding out tho that even the most ardent "haters" of the current paradigm. the ones screaming constantly about how bad it is do not seem to want choices on taxes. Im not sure why. In my opinion its all we can do right now is invest all our extra earnings into sustainable systems. we cant do that now and have to stay in the lemmings march for longer.

[gnm]

I am sure your income taxes are being well spent in Iraq Ludi...

Roads, local infrastructure et al are easily met by local/property/state/sales taxes... So that argument doesn't wash. But now if you want to have a MASSIVE BLOATED INTRUSIVE WASTEFUL FEDERAL MONSTROSITY well then for that you need income taxes. Nice trick how it gets taken out little by little too. Imagine how much people would scream if they had to pay it all at once...

Oh and all those handouts to states by the fed sure make it convienent in case the state trys to do anything the people vote on like medical marijuana, speed limits etc that the fed doesn't like. Great way of usurping the letter and the intent of the constitution...

-G

[JoeCoal]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'Y')ou're welcome to do all you can to do away with taxes.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('whereagles', 'H')owever, History has the priceless virtue of surprising us when we least expect it.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JoeCoal', 'H')ere's a proven method:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Albert the Alligator', '"')I didn't have no income last year, so I ain't gonna pay no tax on it!"

[Jack]

Yes, we're beyond the point of no return. One need only take a look at the price action of precious metals, of crude oil, or of energy stocks to see the patterns.

As has been previously pointed out, humankind has a short time horizon. Also, they refuse to believe that things can and will get worse. Finally, they're driven by the same fundamental urge as bacteria - i.e., to increase their numbers without limit.

So of course they'll hit the wall and hit it hard. When real privation and actual trouble strikes, the masses will howl for a quick solution. The politicians, in the fine tradition of Baghdad Bob, will pronounce that all is well, and that Grand Solutions (tm) are nearly at hand. If everyone will just stay the course, prosperity will soon return. Even then, no one will believe the fundamental truth implied by Peak Oil.

Later, after things start to get really bad - the die-off - people will start to believe. They will then squander the last resources available on the Final Grand Solution (tm), which is different from the old-style final solution in that the FGS will be mass suicide. The FGS will fail, and at that point, the actual crash will come. Civilization and culture will then, to a great extent, dissolve. After a century or more, things will stabilize and - perhaps - a less numerous humanity will look at the next steps.

As for me, the markets have been kind, and I expect to make even more. I and mine will, so far as possible, survive in as much comfort as possible. This marks me clearly as being part of the old, failed paradigm; but neither I, nor any who read this, will live to see the new.

It's going to be a bumpy ride. But perhaps I will yet win a place in Skadhi's halls.