[MicroHydro]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'I') see it as a very uncoordinated smash and grab. Where lot's of individual actors have stuck their heads up and thought "christ, that looks bad" and they are all carving out what they can get using whatever resources they can command.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gnm', 'I') am sure your income taxes are being well spent in Iraq Ludi...

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MicroHydro', 'P')erhaps after the dieoff, the world will not only be humbled and poorer, perhaps it will be just a little smarter, wiser, and more resistant to propaganda/advertising

[MicroHydro]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'T')his is a excellent place to site a 'Pa' called 'The Alamo'.

[eric_b]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'T')he only crash plan I see in place at the moment is one to escalate the debt beyond the comprehension of man.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('holmes', 'T')hats the biggest thing for me right now: taxes. Give us all our money so at least the ones who want to invest in an ecological paradigm can invest ALL our earnings into it. Im finding out tho that even the most ardent "haters" of the current paradigm. the ones screaming constantly about how bad it is do not seem to want choices on taxes.

[MonteQuest]

Let me be a bit specific here and steer this back on topic:

How it is that the advocates of nuclear power as a solution feel that time is on their side? Do they believe the USGS 2032 peak date?

Why is it not "beyond the point of no return" for them, given that the time required to have any significant impact is just not there?

Let's not get into another pro/con nuclear debate here.

You could substitute ethanol or tar sands in it's place.

Nuclear is just the most ardently argued here and I would like to hear their comeback.

Let's talk about the time required to implement any solution, even fusion.

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'H')ow it is that the advocates of nuclear power as a solution feel that time is on their side? Do they believe the USGS 2032 peak date?

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'H')ow it is that the advocates of nuclear power as a solution feel that time is on their side? Do they believe the USGS 2032 peak date?

[JoeCoal]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JoeCoal', 'H')ere's a proven method:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Albert the Alligator', '"')I didn't have no income last year, so I ain't gonna pay no tax on it!"

[drew]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', ' ')they've given up hope on making the world a better place and just seeing what they can do to get themselves higher up the ladder to add some security to what ever turns out.

[savethehumans]

Yes, we are beyond the point of no return.

Yes, it is too late to do much of anything about it.

No, having bunches of money isn't going to help these greedy folks, cuz money ain't gonna be worth squat.

No, alternative fuels and power sources are not going to come along and save the day.

We are SCREWED, people?

So why not just throw in the towel? Because you still have TODAY. Whatever has come/is coming, you do have the option of NOT being one of the marauding throngs (currently known as sheeple), bandits, coldhearted elitists, etc. You could just do what you can to make the lives of others and yourself better TODAY. Idealistic? Not really. I'm a big cynical skeptic sort. But I know also (from having it done for ME as well as my doing it for others) that a compliment here and a kindness there can make all the difference in at least ONE life, for ONE day.

Sure, it's good to plan relocalization and all. But we have no clue as to how bad the global panic is gonna be when everything comes tumbling down. An army of desperate people can destroy all our community planning in hours/days/weeks.

Still, preparation is necessary. Maybe communities here and there will get lucky. Maybe not. But the best-prepared can but do their best TODAY, and set up a system which will work if tomorrow, too, turns out to be a good TODAY.

Let's be honest, folks. It's gonna be hell on earth--literally, if the global warming scientists are right about speedy temperature rises--before anything settles down. You can take that knowledge, and give up. You can take it, and become part of a militia/fortress culture. You can take it, and stoop to the level of those who'll try to destroy any community lifeboat they find. Or, you can determine to set an example of how to live--which may well outlive YOU.

Each of us has that choice. I know which one I've made, cynical skeptic or not. Hope you all can live with your own choices--you're gonna have to!

[nero]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')et me be a bit specific here and steer this back on topic:

How it is that the advocates of nuclear power as a solution feel that time is on their side? Do they believe the USGS 2032 peak date?

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nero', 'I') recognize that while it takes a very long time to construct infrastructure it takes very little time indeed to implement conservation.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MicroHydro', 'A')ctually, I have already chosen TEOTWAWKI Farm as the name of the place to site my Pa.

[crapattack]

Monte, in my long and fruitless arguments with the nuke proponents on this forum I have often mentioned the time implementation issue, and like you, been quite unsatisfied with the answers. I have no idea how they think they can get several hundred plants built in NA let alone globally in nearly enough time to make any difference. A couple of the propoents (not mentioning names) have suggested that we will need over 200 plants to run what we are running now (personally I think it will be far more), and the most optomistic time frame is to have about 30 plants built by 2020 and they do think they have at least until 2030. I would also like to hear a realistic implementation plan for nuke or anything else that assumes we have peaked or are peaking now, but I won't hold my breath.

The other plan I am interested in hearing from the nukes is how they plan to run the plants, mine the uranium, maintain the plants and grids, and decommission them and dispose safely of the waste, post-crash and die-off when people are just trying to survive. I have heard scenarios suggesting the odd plant going critical once every 5 years or so as being quite acceptable risks to them.

[MicroHydro]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MicroHydro', 'A')ctually, I have already chosen TEOTWAWKI Farm as the name of the place to site my Pa.

[julianj]

I too think we're past the peak, which is why I get so depressed trying to tell people about this and they think I'm a loonie. (actually I am...but that's not relevant to PO )

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he free market is our enemy, not our friend.

[rs]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MicroHydro', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'I') see it as a very uncoordinated smash and grab. Where lot's of individual actors have stuck their heads up and thought "christ, that looks bad" and they are all carving out what they can get using whatever resources they can command.

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rs', '
')I can't see how buying land etc. can really help us long-term. Maybe preparation is more about survival techniques ie. martial arts, weapons, knowledge of agriculture, medicine and so on.

Maybe it won't end up in total anarchy that I fear.