[emersonbiggins]

While I agree with the wall, in theory, the fact remains that only 5% of foreign trucks are checked at the ports of entry and that is, and still remains, one of the largest funnels of illegals into this country. A wall won't stop that.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '
')...And just who are you going to get to build the wall?

To make the irony crystal clear: I haven't seen many whiteys holding trowels these days.

[Willy]

These discussions always seem to devolve in to a "you're rascist- no i am not" type of argument. the point is not the race of people coming here, it's that HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS TO MILLIONS of people are coming ILLEGALLY.
This is bad for many things, it depresses wages and clutters low end job markets, who would garden and work in your kitchens? teens who have no other skills. and meanwhile the immigrants are being taken advantage of, OSHA and other laws are not being followed because employees can't complain. it can lead to near slavery conditions that need to stop! i feel for the fact that these people are desperate enough to have to take these positions but just because they will do it doesn't mean that it's right. efficancy is also damaged by cheap labor, machines could do much of the work in the fields but why buy a 150000+ dollar machine when you can hire 50 guys to work for a few bucks a day.
It also brings in a socioeconomic class of people that are more likely to commit crimes, poorer people commit more crimes than wealthy people, add in to that the fact that ALL of these people have already shown their willingness to commit crimes by ALREADY DOING IT. this doesn't even count those groups that advocate returning the southwest to mexico, sometimes through violent action.
It helps support a government in mexico that is not interested in helping its own people out, why help out your own people when they can cross a border and then flood you economy with american money all while using their services. forcing mexico to deal with it's internal problems will help many more in the long road than immigration to the us will.
Finally the biggest reason we should stop illeagal imigration is simple. we have no idea who else is getting in. many are hardworking people looking for a better life, several are criminals looking to escape their own government/police forces. add to it the fact that terrorists or other national threats could slip by easily and we have a problem not only about immigration but also about national security.
Immigration can have several benefits for a country, done right it can provide a steady supply of hard working intellegent needed people. it may sound harsh to say but i don't want the unwashed masses, i don't think we will have the ability to feed and clothe and deal with the issues of millions of "second class" citizens in the coming economic and political tumoil that peak oil is bringing. regardless of you doomeroisty level we all should be aware that america is at the least gonna suffer some lean times. what we don't need is people taking up the jobs and services of those who have lived here their entire lives and are entitled them. charity is for when you have extra and america is about to run out.

[PrairieMule]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'W')hile I agree with the wall, in theory, the fact remains that only 5% of foreign trucks are checked at the ports of entry and that is, and still remains, one of the largest funnels of illegals into this country. A wall won't stop that.

[drew]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'I') wont hide where I stand on the issue

What I detest and despise is ILLEGAL aliens. They are breaking the laws, they are undermining our society and they are a risk to our security, health and well being as a whole.

[drew]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('erl', 'G')iven Drew's comments up above, I think we should encourage all the illegal immigrants (or at least a proportional share) to keep heading north. That way Canada can show us here in the states how Canada would deal with 20 million illegal immigrants.

Say goodbye to national health care.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrairieMule', ' ')The tactic doesn't work on the War on Drugs but might be worth a try for immigration.

[Willy]

[quote="drew"][quote="Specop_007"]I wont hide where I stand on the issue

What laws?-be specific

immigration, and employment laws, the ones about not entering the country illegally and not having a job without a SSN along with driving without a liscence or insurance etc.. i can look up exact wordings of the laws but i highly doubt you are really concerned, you just want to paint specop as a bigot.

undermining your society-how?

flooding social services. you can't build schools and hospitals and police stations etc that a larger society needs overnight, and neither can you train the people to man them fast enough, a slow population growth can be handled,even encouraged, a fast one causes over crowding, poor service and people slipping through the cracks. and again there are groups that advocate armed insurrection against the us to "reclaim the southwest". that seems a bit anti american to me, how about you?

risk to security-how? (remember, the only thing even closely similar to a mexican and an al queda arab is skin colour)

if anybody can sneak in than so can murders rapists theives drug dealers etc, then there is the fact that many drive without proper training and insurance, driving in mexico and here ARE not the same. add to that the fact that poor people with no legal standing have little to fear from breaking more laws, they are already screwed if they get caught. it's not the best recipe for a safe society

risk to well being-how?
look above- if my security and society are being injured so am i as a citizen.

[nero]

As I understand it the days of protest rallies this week were against a law that would basically criminalize illegal immigrants (aka "undocumented workers") But I have a question, since most of these people according to the media obtain forged documents so that the employers can turn a blind eye when hiring them, aren't they in effect already criminals? Surely it is against some law to forge official documents. Or is the media giving corporations a free pass on the issue.

Are they "Undocumented Workers" or "Forged Document Workers"?

[elocs]

Brilliant! A wall is just what we need.
An American Maginot Line that the illegal immigrants will just go around.
As mentioned, the security at our ports is so poor that they will come through there. How about a wall around the entire country? That way you could keep not only the Indians out, but the cowboys in. Then we could listen to the rest of the world say, "Mr. Bush, tear down that wall!!"

Of course, the right wing evangelical Christians will have a problem with a wall because we all know they like to do exactly what the Bible says they should do.
In Leviticus 19:33-34 it is written:
" When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God."
So the Christians will be against it because they looove
the Word of God. Amen!


The Walmartization of America is exactly right. We want things cheap, cheap, cheap. Love those cheap veggies and fruit and even way up north here in Wisconsin, maybe 30 miles from me, there is an Hispanic community whose people came to work at the meat packing plant.

Maybe it would be cheaper just to pay them off, give them some dollars just to not come here. But, then again, this is a country that likes to skimp on education but has no problem spending big, big bucks to build more and more prisons to hold more and more people.
As the commercial said, "You can pay me now, or you can pay me later."

But then again, a wall as big as this one would have to be would probably become one of the modern wonders of the world. You could have lots of gun implacements on it and people could pay money to shoot at any illegal that gets too close. And the ultimate irony is that we could get illegal immigrants to provide the labor to build the wall.
After all, what self respecting legal American would want to work out in the hot sun to build a humungous wall? Perhaps we could round up homeless people as well.

Yes, build a wall, because that is, without a doubt, the most spectacularly brilliant idea I have ever heard.
In fact, I am more than willing to toss a brick at you, er, I mean "to" you. My bad.

[coyote]

I think the brick wall idea is ridiculous, sorry Spec. It reminds me of the whole 'don't buy gas on Wednesdays' thing a couple of years back; except that it has, if anything, even less chance of accomplishing anything at all. At the most, if you get enough people actually doing it, it might even make it onto the 'Odd News' page of a newspaper or two.

BTW, excellent points Emersonbiggins and Pops.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Willy', '.')..regardless of you doomeroisty level we all should be aware that america is at the least gonna suffer some lean times. what we don't need is people taking up the jobs and services of those who have lived here their entire lives and are entitled them. charity is for when you have extra and america is about to run out.

[Jack]

The bricks are a great idea!

By the way, today's Wall Street Journal, in their
April economic forecasting survey, showed that
a majority (59%) of economists agree that
illegal immigrants have a slight effect on the wages
for other low-wage workers in the U.S. Thus, illegal
immigrants hurt the U.S. poor - and if one is already
strained by the economy, a "slight" impact may be
felt more strongly.

In viewing the immigration debate, I am reminded
of the Norse Greenland colony, as written about by
Jared Diamond. We risk letting a a flood overwhelm
the lifeboat, killing us all.

Let's get to work building that wall!

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('drew', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'I') wont hide where I stand on the issue

What I detest and despise is ILLEGAL aliens. They are breaking the laws, they are undermining our society and they are a risk to our security, health and well being as a whole.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('coyote', 'I') think the brick wall idea is ridiculous, sorry Spec. It reminds me of the whole 'don't buy gas on Wednesdays' thing a couple of years back; except that it has, if anything, even less chance of accomplishing anything at all. At the most, if you get enough people actually doing it, it might even make it onto the 'Odd News' page of a newspaper or two.

BTW, excellent points Emersonbiggins and Pops.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Willy', '.')..regardless of you doomeroisty level we all should be aware that america is at the least gonna suffer some lean times. what we don't need is people taking up the jobs and services of those who have lived here their entire lives and are entitled them. charity is for when you have extra and america is about to run out.

[smallpoxgirl]

I think it's a great idea Specop. Since you're so intuned to the issue of illegal immigration, I'm sure that you would be more than happy, as a descendent of illegal immigrants, to deport yourself back to Europe. Surely you can see the unconcionable burden you and your illegal immigrant kin have been on this continent.

You buy a ticket, and I'll mail a brick. Deal?

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'I') think it's a great idea Specop. Since you're so intuned to the issue of illegal immigration, I'm sure that you would be more than happy, as a descendent of illegal immigrants, to deport yourself back to Europe. Surely you can see the unconcionable burden you and your illegal immigrant kin have been on this continent.

You buy a ticket, and I'll mail a brick. Deal?

[smallpoxgirl]

Law of the land? No my friend. Just because your squatter ancestors all got together and approved eachothers transgressions, that doesn't make it the law of the land. The US government doesn't hold a legitimate title to a single square inch of the land it occupies. It obtained all that land through treaties, every one of which it unilaterally abrogated and thus rendered void. If you want to stay here, you'd better be headed for the nearest tribal government office to beg them for a green card. Otherwise, get on the other side of the wall.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'L')aw of the land? No my friend. Just because your squatter ancestors all got together and approved eachothers transgressions, that doesn't make it the law of the land. The US government doesn't hold a legitimate title to a single square inch of the land it occupies. It obtained all that land through treaties, every one of which it unilaterally abrogated and thus rendered void. If you want to stay here, you'd better be headed for the nearest tribal government office to beg them for a green card. Otherwise, get on the other side of the wall.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'I')f the illegals want it, let them TAKE it the same way we did. I know alot of people who would be more then happy to kick the shootin war off and get this shit settled once and for all.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'I')f the illegals want it, let them TAKE it the same way we did. I know alot of people who would be more then happy to kick the shootin war off and get this shit settled once and for all.