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THE Mutant Zombie Hordes Thread pt 2 (merged)

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Will starving masses roam or stay put?

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 08:36:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'a')d hominen snippage


Nice.

re: content...

You want to believe the zombies will rule rural america... Great. I suppose it makes a nice fantasy; but in general, the terrain and elements will kill most, any that are violently inclined will be mopped up easily enough as they do stupid things that get them shot.

I suppose its possible you live in a very peaceful and placid region.... I dunno. Hope it stays that way for you.


Of course I said no such thing,
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'Y')ou talk pretty tough. Exactly how many people get shot by these "rural people" who like to shoot other people for fun? Funny thing is I've never shot anyone for fun and I have lived in some areas with low population density. No one I went to school with shot anyone for fun. I kid that rode the bus with me as a kid is in prison for murder. That wasn't fun though, that was a drug deal gone bad.

My law enforcement got kinda excited when someone was murdered... it only happened about once every 50-75 years. The highlight of a career one might say.

The thing is, you can hold your position and make a good argument for it for some of the reasons you mentioned. You can even say that rural people will defend their homesteads and kill a lot of "zombies." But we're not that "stocked up with ammo and supplies." Maybe you are, but don't try to be a spokesperson for "rural America."


There are no supermen, not in rural america, not in urban america, not the zombies not those engaging in a paramilitary fantasies. Most in rural areas are not engaging in paramilitary fantasies. We are all "fertilizer" eventually and while we can all alter our odds at going down in a fast crash, there is no guarentee.

Of course if you want to go around with all of that bravado be my guest.
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Re: Will starving masses roam or stay put?

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 08:45:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('truecougarblue', 'P')retorian, I totally disagree with this, especially the 1 in 5000 odds.

If I know some group or individual is coming, (and I do know because my dog is barking at them) then unless they have special training the odds are most definitely in MY favor, even if I do nothing until I hear glass breaking or a door being kicked in. When that happens even in today's world, (and not the post apocalyptic fantasy being discussed) one is entirely within one's right to take the intruder out.

I would say the odds of 3 of them taking me and my wife down in our own home are about the same as the odds that they are all armed with shotguns.


Without agreeing with the previous posts "odds."

A group of coyotes is capable of taking out a dog by leading it into a trap, are homo sapeins smart enough. So one night I lure your dog away and eat it for dinner.

The next night I (using the cover of darkness to break out half of your windows... then I wait a couple of weeks and come back and take out the others etc etc...

better yet I just sit under some cover at 200 yards with a nice new looted scope and...

Paramilitary fantasies rest on the idea that the individual defending themselves against "sheeple" or "zombies," one must make their enemy stupid or slow in order to play out a mental scenerio where it all comes out ok, the paramilitary is successful and the land is littered with the bodies of the hoards. It is as much a delusion as the cornicopian vision of a limitless future. Only in this case it is the armed male who is exaulted instead of the newest tech and it is the "zombies" who are minimized instead of overpopulation, energy consumption, jeavon's paradox etc...
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Re: Will starving masses roam or stay put?

Unread postby AgentR » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 09:55:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'M')ost in rural areas are not engaging in paramilitary fantasies.


This keeps popping up in your comments, and I have no idea where it is coming from.

I do not engage in paramilitary anything. Sorry.
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Re: Will starving masses roam or stay put?

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 10:01:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', '
')
3.) tendency of rural inhabitants to shoot people for the fun of it.

4.) tendency of local rural enforcement to not give a darn about the shootees, as long as the corpse isn't left in the road.

50 miles out from their starting point, these roving masses will be physically crippled, desperate, stupid, disorganized, unarmored... and loud...



This is not true there fore it is either a lie or a delusion. A lie entails intent. I do not know your intent therefore I use the word "delusion" to describe it.

define: paramilitary

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'a')dj.

Of, relating to, or being a group of civilians organized in a military fashion, especially to operate in place of or assist regular army troops.


You seem to be speaking of a group of rural civilians mowing down the "zombies," hence I call your explanation a "paramilitary delusion."

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Re: Will starving masses roam or stay put?

Unread postby skyemoor » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 10:15:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'M')ost in rural areas are not engaging in paramilitary fantasies.


This keeps popping up in your comments, and I have no idea where it is coming from.

I do not engage in paramilitary anything. Sorry.


What I believe wisconsin_cur is saying is that while you are not saying it in so many terms, you are strongly implying it. I can see his point, though perhaps you are conceptualizing different terms and approaches in your head. Indeed, many in rural areas have varmint or deer rifles, and may feel the need to use them if they feel their life (or their family's) threatened. But your characterization of their behavior bespeaks of paramilitary fantasy, and it is right for wisconsin_cur to point this out. This is not a paramilitary site, and our Code of Conduct strictly precludes encouragement of illegal activities, such as suggesting that 'shooting up zombies' is to be considered standard operating procedure. You didn't quite cross that line, but I want to remind you and other readers of this forum's policies so that we don't have to remove over-the-top posts (which we will).
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Re: Will starving masses roam or stay put?

Unread postby AgentR » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 10:26:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'T')his is not true there fore it is either a lie or a delusion.


How bout I restate the point...

"SOME rural inhabitants have a tendency to shoot at or near people for fun."

Better? I would never ascribe "all" to what I wrote, and I know directly and personally "SOME", so that could not be described as "lie" or "delusion". And btw, none of the SOME that I know (who shall remain nameless to protect the guilty.. :razz: ..) could be described by anyone as paramilitary... drunks, nuts, or just plain off, certainly true enough.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')i]Of, relating to, or being a group of civilians organized in a military fashion, especially to operate in place of or assist regular army troops.

You seem to be speaking of a group of rural civilians mowing down the "zombies," hence I call your explanation a "paramilitary delusion."


Now THAT is delusion thinking. I never suggested any such thing. There will not be any groups anywhere, mowing down any other groups anywhere. Doesn't work like that. Joe Zombie struggles up the creek bed; slips, gashes his leg on some sharp slate, develops an infected wound, dies. Doug Zombie and his four buddies smash into a house, kill a couple residents, are killed or wounded themselves in the ensuing mess... Thirty friends of Bob Zombie struggle to get away from the city and are met on the road by five deputies and instructions that camp with water, rice, and fence is "over there". Two hundred friends of Bill Zombie struggle up the road... and die of deyhdration, quickly becoming Thirty friends of Bill Zombie...

There are no situations in which a large mass of Zombies can both survive and cause havoc in rural America. Will the occasional zombie kill the occasional rural resident.. sure. Will there be spotted instances of paramilitary groups doing silly things that cause NG or Army response that obliterates them, sure. None of that poses any statistically significant risk to rural America.
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Re: Will starving masses roam or stay put?

Unread postby AgentR » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 10:33:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('skyemoor', 'B')ut your characterization of their behavior bespeaks of paramilitary fantasy, and it is right for wisconsin_cur to point this out. This is not a paramilitary site, ...


Then let me make it perfectly clear.

None of what I wrote is meant to suggest any organized activity by any group or possible group. It is a characterization of moderately random responses of certain members of the population to moderately random possible, individual encounters and events.

No militaristic or paramilitary situations are envisioned.

At ALL.
None.
Nada.
Zip.
Zilch.

Paramilitary silliness is second on my list of really fantastical concepts; probably only trumped by this notion that a zombie horde of starving refugees presents any sort of threat to rural America.
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Re: Will starving masses roam or stay put?

Unread postby VMarcHart » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 10:34:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', 'S')OME rural inhabitants have a tendency to shoot at or near people for fun.
Agent, no more, no less than South Chicago, North Minneapolis, East Memphis, Harlem, East LA, etc.
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Re: Will starving masses roam or stay put?

Unread postby AgentR » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 10:36:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VMarcHart', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', 'S')OME rural inhabitants have a tendency to shoot at or near people for fun.
Agent, no more, no less than South Chicago, North Minneapolis, East Memphis, Harlem, East LA, etc.


Absolutely.
My Point.
Ding.

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Re: Will starving masses roam or stay put?

Unread postby Pretorian » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 11:19:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 's')nippage of individual encounter possibilities..


There aren't 1, 2, or 3 possibilities; there are tens of thousands. All have completely different outcome matrices. Listing a few doesn't really tell you much.

The balance does not favor a Zombie Kingdom in rural america.


I agree with you absolutely there; However, in the long run the outcome is the same for any combination of those situations: you die.
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Re: Will starving masses roam or stay put?

Unread postby AgentR » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 11:26:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'i')n the long run the outcome is the same for any combination of those situations: you die.


Absolutely. That is true for everyone.
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Re: Will starving masses roam or stay put?

Unread postby Pretorian » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 11:42:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('truecougarblue', 'P')retorian, I totally disagree with this, especially the 1 in 5000 odds.

If I know some group or individual is coming...


well I said "a group with most basic weapons which knows what it wants and where are you at" . That means they are in no hurry to storm your house and take unnessasary risk. They may just take you and your dog out while you munching a sour apple from 500 yards away( ok, a 100 yards ,200 yards, 50 yards away from some abandoned house, whatever )
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Re: Will starving masses roam or stay put?

Unread postby AgentR » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 11:57:50

I think part of the problem in this discussion is the disparity on whether any particular rural dweller survives an encounter or not; vs what I am interested in, which is the net effect of dead rurals and dead zombies. My argument is that the combined impact of refugee travel, dehydration, starvation, poor sanitation, and conflict will result in the "starving masses" (aka zombie horde) either dieing or choosing to enter refugee camps where they can at least get some safe water and a bowl of rice.
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Re: Will starving masses roam or stay put?

Unread postby Serial_Worrier » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 12:31:23

What's this with "zombies" anyways. Zombies are by definition reanimated corpses. May you be afflicted with the fleas of a thousand camels!
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Re: Will starving masses roam or stay put?

Unread postby mos6507 » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 12:38:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('skyemoor', '
')But your characterization of their behavior bespeaks of paramilitary fantasy, and it is right for wisconsin_cur to point this out. This is not a paramilitary site, and our Code of Conduct strictly precludes encouragement of illegal activities, such as suggesting that 'shooting up zombies' is to be considered standard operating procedure. You didn't quite cross that line, but I want to remind you and other readers of this forum's policies so that we don't have to remove over-the-top posts (which we will).


If that's the case, why have the mods allowed discussions which condone cannibalism (by Anarky321)?
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Re: Will starving masses roam or stay put?

Unread postby Ludi » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 12:45:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '
')If that's the case, why have the mods allowed discussions which condone cannibalism (by Anarky321)?


That has puzzled me for quite some time.
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Re: Will starving masses roam or stay put?

Unread postby AgentR » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 13:40:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Serial_Worrier', 'W')hat's this with "zombies" anyways. Zombies are by definition reanimated corpses. May you be afflicted with the fleas of a thousand camels!


I'm sure we will all have plenty of fleas to contend with; but that is neither here nor there. "Zombie Horde" evokes imagery from various movies that have large packs of seemingly mindless humanoids shambling along, destroying everything in their path. Every time I see one of these "The city dwellers are going to invade and destroy rural America by force of arms/numbers/fancy clothes, I like to scoff at it by referencing said imagery.

As above, will some violently inclined city dwellers go forth boldly into rural America and maybe even kill and rob a few times? Sure; but odds and hazards are not favorable for their continued survival, even for the fittest among them. For the average, sedentary city dweller that gets it in his head to strike out... rural America is a nightmare deathtrap.
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Re: Will starving masses roam or stay put?

Unread postby truecougarblue » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 13:44:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', ' ')They may just take you and your dog out while you munching a sour apple from 500 yards away( ok, a 100 yards ,200 yards, 50 yards away from some abandoned house, whatever )


Have you ever actually owned a good dog? My dog will indicate to me about a minute ahead of time that someone in my family is coming home, and that means they are stil 1/2 mile away! She also can tell when I'm troubled and her attention level increases.

I'm not Rambo, I'm just trying to apply common sense to the situation.

The situation you describe reeks of "specialized training", which was my caveat. My point was that in almost any situation sans surprise the defenders have the advantage, and that shotguns beat handguns in almost any close range matchup.

I agree though with many of the opinions regarding the starving masses. Most americans today will go quietly into "shelters" and eat government cheese. Those who riot will burn down thier own neighborhoods. Very, very few without ties to the land will head for the hills.
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Re: Will starving masses roam or stay put?

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 13:58:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', ' ')rural America is a nightmare deathtrap.


Of course it is also a "death trap" for many who already live there to... of course many of them are liable to go to the city looking for a hand out long before the people in the city come out.

There is not enough wild game to go around. Up here we need heat and most of those who have wood are still in need of electric to make that work (outdoor boilers). Most do not know how to make corn into food... even if they could most of the seed is hybrid... I really made our local guy jump through hoops to find me some OP seed.

No fuel deliveries, no hay, no way to keep animals alive through the winter. Yeah we are so much better off than those in the city :roll:
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Re: Will starving masses roam or stay put?

Unread postby skyemoor » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 14:02:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '
')If that's the case, why have the mods allowed discussions which condone cannibalism (by Anarky321)?


The Open Discussion forum is not as closely monitored as these forums. If I had seen anything like what you describe in this forum, it would have be moderated.
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