[patience]

At the moment, our rural area has a few empty houses, left by those who couldn't afford the commute to the city 35 miles away. I've seen this reverse migration back to the city, whence they came, back in the early 1950's after the Korean War, and in the late 1970's when inflation took it's toll, and again today. Each time, it has been economic hardship that sent them packing back to the city.

To this group, living in the country was a luxury they could no longer afford. By contrast, those who stayed in rural areas were people who had become a part of the local economy and society. If this is a fair example, then people seem to go where they think they can make it economically, and where they understand the lifestyle. They were just camping out, while they were here. Storms come, and they fold their tent and go "home".

With this in mind, I don't expect much trouble out here. Some, yes, but not major numbers of zombies. Govt, and military could be a problem, but I don't see too many city folks leaving the city. They are afraid of the country. They take the city with them when they go camping--in RV's with TV and all the conveniences. They hate the bugs and are petrified of the wildlife. I've seen "gangstas" run like rabbits from a solitary paper wasp flying around indoors. Brave bunch, all right. Sure. I'm convinced that people will stay with what they KNOW.

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('patience', 'T')hey are afraid of the country. They take the city with them when they go camping--in RV's with TV and all the conveniences. They hate the bugs and are petrified of the wildlife. I've seen "gangstas" run like rabbits from a solitary paper wasp flying around indoors. Brave bunch, all right. Sure. I'm convinced that people will stay with what they KNOW.

[Muckingfess]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'I') think what's more likely is a "zombie horde lite" which is just people strategically moving from collapsing cities to rural regions. In so doing they will destroy these rural areas with thier sheer numbers. They will move while they still have the means to do so.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', '
')Overall, it shockes me when someone is suggesting vasectomies for population control.

[pedalling_faster]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('biofuel13', 'T')hey way I see it the zombies will move like an army would. They move into an area, taking it by force if necessary, pillage what they want/need and set up camp there until they need to move on to greener pastures. This will ripple outward from the cities further and further into the countryside.

[manu]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Drifter', 'I') wouldn't want to be trapped in Phoenix or Vegas. Where would they roam to?

[manu]

[quote="abelardlindsay"]You know.... people who are starving to death don't have a lot of energy to move around. The authorities will still have gas and probably set up armed checkpoints to control the movements of people into and out of areas. The distribution of food stocks will be highly politicized. After all, the person with the power to distribute food decides who gets to live and who doesn't. The mechanics of how it would operate would be akin to how terror famines operated in the old Soviet Union.


Yes, the Febs, i mean Feds will block the roads out of the cities. That is why it is wise to get out now while you can. Even if you have to live in a tent.

[manu]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '
')Why not both?

[manu]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('abelardlindsay', 'Y')ou know.... people who are starving to death don't have a lot of energy to move around.

[manu]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quagmire', '.')
Ummm... I have a question, since I've seen the term so frequently on this site... What is 'marshall law' and is it any different from 'martial law'?
Maybe it has more of an old west slant to it? I like the term and have decided to use it too from now on!

Anyway, jumping into the 'whom to sterilize debate', consider this:
Given 100 people, say 50 men, 50 women; you have resources for 49 sterilizations...
You goal: to cut birth rates to the max. If you sterilize 49 men, 50 women (excluding Ludi!) could get pregnant. If you sterilize 49 women, only one pregnancy is possible! I'm a libber too, being of the persuasion, but math is math, face the facts.

Marshall Law=Someone like Marshall Dillon, or John Wayne takes over and says "listen up pilgrim".
Martial Law-When the Feds take over and say "listen up pilgrim".
I am glad someone on this site knows math!

Q.

( I know vasectomies are less resource intensive, & I wasn't considering that aspect.)

[allenwrench]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', '
')Man is born to father children-- as many as possible.-- or at least to try his luck.

[manu]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vetusfirma', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kjmclark', '
')
I would guess that most starving masses wouldn't try to go far and mostly wouldn't succeed if they tried. However, the starving masses I'm concerned about are gangs, teens/young adults who might join gangs, people selling or transporting drugs, and the prison population that the state releases when it can't afford to house them any longer. I suppose you could add former military, though for different reasons.

Now, what percentage of the US population is gang members, potential gang members, prisoners, and former or current military? I would expect the veterans to mostly be willing to work for the food, and only take it if the answer is no and there are no other options. The criminal types I don't expect to bother to ask. It would only take a few armed gang members to ruin your day.

[allenwrench]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'I') think what's more likely is a "zombie horde lite" which is just people strategically moving from collapsing cities to rural regions. In so doing they will destroy these rural areas with thier sheer numbers. They will move while they still have the means to do so.

[allenwrench]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '
')There are people who live in the 3rd world on $300/month in densely populated cities. If they can afford to eat food sent in 3,000 miles away

[allenwrench]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '.')..
Transport aside, how will packing people together like sardine cans surmount the problem of growing enough food for them when we're only able to do that now because of fossil-fuel-derived fertilizers? I just think there will be shortage of food regardless of where people live, 5000 mile diet or 1 mile diet. Truly sustainable agricultural practices will necessitate a smaller population.

[allenwrench]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hermes', '
')Yes, the Ik society is different than ours. But at the same time when a human animal suffers this kind of starvation I doubt the cultural laws which made the Ik and Joe 6-pack different will much exist anymore. Both will be driven by a deep desire to eat, which will overpower all else.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', '
')Overall, it shockes me when someone is suggesting vasectomies for population control.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', '
')Man is born to father children-- as many as possible.-- or at least to try his luck.

[Quagmire]

.
Manu:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '"')Marshall Law=Someone like Marshall Dillon, or John Wayne takes over and says "listen up pilgrim".
Martial Law-When the Feds take over and say "listen up pilgrim".
I am glad someone on this site knows math! "

[Ainan]

As stated before on this thread, the 'zombie hordes' do not know how hunt or gather from the wild and will have to raid rural farms which are few and far between. Besides, in the western world most of the countryside is under plow or produces little in the way of wild foods.

I recommend everyone watches Ray Mears: Wild food to see how hard it is to gather enough food to survive even for experts. Only people who grew up and live as hunter gathers can survive and thrive.

I expect in a sudden collapse people will hold up at home for many weeks and only try moving when they are starving, by then they will be so weak they will be of little threat. In a long collpase I expect people(mostly the young) to try to find rural employment so at least they can eat.