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The Martial Law Thread (merged)

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Re: Martial Law: 8 million Americans to be potentially DETAI

Unread postby Kingcoal » Sat 24 May 2008, 12:18:48

Who's on the list? Everyone who voted against GWB?
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Re: Martial Law: 8 million Americans to be potentially DETAI

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Sat 24 May 2008, 12:31:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'J')ohn Lennon was on a list. Nothing really became of any of this.

Nothing came of it back then. I think the nature of such things though is that if you build such a tool, eventually it may become irresistible to try it out. I also think we're headed for national turmoil that will make the 1970's look pretty tame.

I don't know if it will get used or when, but I would say that it's a virtual certainty that DHS has such a list.
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Re: Martial Law: 8 million Americans to be potentially DETAI

Unread postby BigTex » Sat 24 May 2008, 12:37:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'J')ohn Lennon was on a list. Nothing really became of any of this.

Nothing came of it back then. I think the nature of such things though is that if you build such a tool, eventually it may become irresistible to try it out. I also think we're headed for national turmoil that will make the 1970's look pretty tame.
I don't know if it will get used or when, but I would say that it's a virtual certainty that DHS has such a list.

You know, this may not be as dumb as it sounds, but I wonder the extent to which making small campaign contributions to various politicians might have an effect on the composition of any such lists.

I have worked in congressional offices and there are two kinds of constituent inquiries--contributors and non-contributors. Guess which ones were handled first?
:)
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Re: Martial Law: 8 million Americans to be potentially DETAI

Unread postby deMolay » Sat 24 May 2008, 12:50:37

Would you go like a sheep onto the cattle cars like the Jews in ww2? Or would fight back or hide?
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Re: Martial Law: 8 million Americans to be potentially DETAI

Unread postby BigTex » Sat 24 May 2008, 12:52:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('deMolay', 'W')ould you go like a sheep onto the cattle cars like the Jews in ww2? Or would fight back or hide?

WOLVERINES!!!!!
:)
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Re: Martial Law: 8 million Americans to be potentially DETAI

Unread postby Kingcoal » Sat 24 May 2008, 13:01:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')ould Main Core in fact be legal? According to constitutional scholar Bruce Fein, who served as associate deputy attorney general under Ronald Reagan, the question of legality is murky: "In the event of a national emergency, the executive branch simply assumes these powers"—the powers to collect domestic intelligence and draw up detention lists, for example—"if Congress doesn't explicitly prohibit it. It's really up to Congress to put these things to rest, and Congress has not done so." Fein adds that it is virtually impossible to contest the legality of these kinds of data collection and spy programs in court "when there are no criminal prosecutions and [there is] no notice to persons on the president's 'enemies list.' That means if Congress remains invertebrate, the law will be whatever the president says it is—even in secret. He will be the judge on his own powers and invariably rule in his own favor."

What about the Judicial Branch? They are the ones who ultimately decide what is legal and what is not. The Constitution does not talk about "emergencies," it uses the term "invasion." Constitutional rights, including habeas corpus, can be suspended if the mainland is invaded. At that point, the US becomes a battlefield and the military is given the usual powers that they have on a battlefield, including the right to detain POWs.

The US has not been invaded in any rational sense and more importantly, in the sense of the writing of the Constitution. Government tries to expand their jurisdiction by calling everything a war, i.e.; "war on drugs," war on this, war on that. I think for that reason, our founding fathers were careful in their wording.
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Re: Martial Law: 8 million Americans to be potentially DETAI

Unread postby Micki » Sat 24 May 2008, 13:49:51

There are of course multiple list or at least classifications of people.
One such example is the 'no fly list" that since 2001 has grown from 16 names to 44000 (mid 07).
People who complained that they no longer are allowed to fly are for instance figures who had the nerve to question the official 911 version.
Wouldn't be surprised if you also find suspicions characters such as
those who have made references to the constitution. (Actually I did find a Princeton professor specialised in the constitution who supposedly was added to the list. Lost the link, so do your own search on no fly lists.)
CBSNEWS - no fly list

Talking about Wolverines. They actually showed Red Dawn on Aussie TV yesterday. I tortured myself through 45 minutes of it.
Last edited by Micki on Sat 24 May 2008, 21:51:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Martial Law: 8 million Americans to be potentially DETAI

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Sat 24 May 2008, 13:51:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', 'W')hat about the Judicial Branch? They are the ones who ultimately decide what is legal and what is not. The Constitution does not talk about "emergencies," it uses the term "invasion." Constitutional rights, including habeas corpus, can be suspended if the mainland is invaded. At that point, the US becomes a battlefield and the military is given the usual powers that they have on a battlefield, including the right to detain POWs.

That's the beauty of the "global war on terror". In the GWOT, the whole world is a battlefield, and martial law can apply anywhere at any time.
"We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
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Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
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Re: Martial Law: 8 million Americans to be potentially DETAI

Unread postby seahorse » Sat 24 May 2008, 13:58:06

I'm reposting this from the "Our Constitution" thread.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seahorse', 'I')t appears our Constitution is being attacked by the Executive under his new war powers, probably it is dead. Interesting article that the US is holding someone declared by the President to be an "enemy combatant." This person was not a US citizen, but was living here legally. The person was apprehended by the FBI. I intentionally didn't use "arrest" bc arrest invokes Constitutional protections. The gov't's legal position is the person has no Constitutional rights and can be held indefinitely by the Fed Gov't.
Notice when you read the article he's been charged with credit card fraud, not any act to commit a terrorist act.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n early 2003, he was indicted on charges of credit card fraud and lying to the FBI.

Notice how he has apparently been held for the last 5 years now without a trial! Lying to the FBI? credit card fraud? As a lawyer, I can say if this is the best the FBI can come up with, they have nothing.
Notice how the prosecutor completely ignores the individual Constitutional rights guaranteed by the Consitution and instead believes the statute defines one's rights, not the Constitution.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hat's how Congress wrote the bill and "if they feel concerned about civil liberties, they can tighten up the language," he said.

I guess the prosecutory ignores the fact that legislation can be unconstitutional and that the Constitution is a limitation of Executive power.
Yahoo News
This is the very horse shit I was worried about when I started this thread.
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Re: Martial Law: 8 million Americans to be potentially DETAI

Unread postby BigTex » Sat 24 May 2008, 17:45:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')ould Main Core in fact be legal? According to constitutional scholar Bruce Fein, who served as associate deputy attorney general under Ronald Reagan, the question of legality is murky: "In the event of a national emergency, the executive branch simply assumes these powers"—the powers to collect domestic intelligence and draw up detention lists, for example—"if Congress doesn't explicitly prohibit it. It's really up to Congress to put these things to rest, and Congress has not done so." Fein adds that it is virtually impossible to contest the legality of these kinds of data collection and spy programs in court "when there are no criminal prosecutions and [there is] no notice to persons on the president's 'enemies list.' That means if Congress remains invertebrate, the law will be whatever the president says it is—even in secret. He will be the judge on his own powers and invariably rule in his own favor."

What about the Judicial Branch? They are the ones who ultimately decide what is legal and what is not. The Constitution does not talk about "emergencies," it uses the term "invasion." Constitutional rights, including habeas corpus, can be suspended if the mainland is invaded. At that point, the US becomes a battlefield and the military is given the usual powers that they have on a battlefield, including the right to detain POWs.
The US has not been invaded in any rational sense and more importantly, in the sense of the writing of the Constitution. Government tries to expand their jurisdiction by calling everything a war, i.e.; "war on drugs," war on this, war on that. I think for that reason, our founding fathers were careful in their wording.

Read up on what happened during the Civil War. Abraham Lincoln was a decent fellow, but when push came to shove the Constitution didn't mean diddly to him.

Power is what settles all questions of rights. Ideally, power and the provisions of the Constitution are in alignment, but when they are not, don't kid yourself about which will prevail. The final arbiter of justice, morality, ethics and rights is power. There is only one seat at the table power sits at.

The Judicial branch is also only relevant to the extent that there are other agents of the government willing to carry out its orders. In a pissing match between the executive branch and the judicial branch, I would not expect the judicial branch to come out ahead (though through history occasionally it has).
:)
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Re: Martial Law: 8 million Americans to be potentially DETAI

Unread postby vandal49588 » Sat 24 May 2008, 19:08:44

I'm more than likely on that list. Political dissidents always get on the list.
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Re: Martial Law: 8 million Americans to be potentially DETAI

Unread postby Pops » Sat 24 May 2008, 19:51:09

Google the author, if all that seems on the level then act appropriately.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
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Re: Martial Law: 8 million Americans to be potentially DETAI

Unread postby BigTex » Sat 24 May 2008, 20:46:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'G')oogle the author, if all that seems on the level then act appropriately.

The author looks to be a professional journalist who has written articles for national magazines.
:)
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Re: Martial Law: 8 million Americans to be potentially DETAI

Unread postby Pops » Sat 24 May 2008, 21:05:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'T')he author looks to be a professional journalist who has written articles for national magazines.

Man, the masthead of the cited source proclaims:
"Pop * Politics * Scandal * Style"

Just the first word in the masthead should tell you how much weight to give the source.

:lol:
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
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Re: Martial Law: 8 million Americans to be potentially DETAI

Unread postby mmasters » Sat 24 May 2008, 21:09:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'G')oogle the author, if all that seems on the level then act appropriately.

Appropriately?
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Re: Martial Law: 8 million Americans to be potentially DETAI

Unread postby BigTex » Sat 24 May 2008, 21:12:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'T')he author looks to be a professional journalist who has written articles for national magazines.

Man, the masthead of the cited source proclaims:
"Pop * Politics * Scandal * Style"
Just the first word in the masthead should tell you how much weight to give the source.
:lol:

I've had pretty good luck with sources with "Pop" in the name.

:lol:
:)
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Re: Martial Law: 8 million Americans to be potentially DETAI

Unread postby Pops » Sat 24 May 2008, 21:25:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'I')'ve had pretty good luck with sources with "Pop" in the name.

We're all used up.

:-D
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
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Re: Martial Law: 8 million Americans to be potentially DETAI

Unread postby threadbear » Sat 24 May 2008, 21:29:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'J')ohn Lennon was on a list. Nothing really became of any of this.

Nothing came of it back then. I think the nature of such things though is that if you build such a tool, eventually it may become irresistible to try it out. I also think we're headed for national turmoil that will make the 1970's look pretty tame.
I don't know if it will get used or when, but I would say that it's a virtual certainty that DHS has such a list.

How do you see it unfolding, SPG? A single triggering event, multiple, or just a slow boil gradually gathering steam and a social explosion?
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Re: Martial Law: 8 million Americans to be potentially DETAI

Unread postby Novus » Sat 24 May 2008, 22:12:20

I think the eventual trigger will be food and gas riots or large scale bank failures and homelessness leading to coast to coast martial law being declared at some point. I don't acknowledge false flag events for they are not needed. A real crisis is at our doorstep right now.
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