by eXpat » Thu 21 Aug 2008, 20:03:39
FBI May Start Spying On Americans "Without Any Basis For Suspicion"
link
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')BI May Start Spying On Americans "Without Any Basis For Suspicion"
New Guidelines Would Give F.B.I. Broader Powers
By ERIC LICHTBLAU
21/08/08 "New York Times" -- -- WASHINGTON — A Justice Department plan would loosen restrictions on the Federal Bureau of Investigation to allow agents to open a national security or criminal investigation against someone without any clear basis for suspicion, Democratic lawmakers briefed on the details said Wednesday.
The plan, which could be made public next month, has already generated intense interest and speculation. Little is known about its precise language, but civil liberties advocates say they fear it could give the government even broader license to open terrorism investigations.
Congressional staff members got a glimpse of some of the details in closed briefings this month, and four Democratic senators told Attorney General Michael B. Mukasey in a letter on Wednesday that they were troubled by what they heard.
The senators said the new guidelines would allow the F.B.I. to open an investigation of an American, conduct surveillance, pry into private records and take other investigative steps “without any basis for suspicion.” The plan “might permit an innocent American to be subjected to such intrusive surveillance based in part on race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, or on protected First Amendment activities,” the letter said. It was signed by Russ Feingold of Wisconsin, Richard J. Durbin of Illinois, Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts and Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island.
As the end of the Bush administration nears, the White House has been seeking to formalize in law and regulation some of the aggressive counterterrorism steps it has already taken in practice since the Sept. 11 attacks.
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw
“You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand
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eXpat
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by Jenab6 » Mon 25 Aug 2008, 07:52:09
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JayHMorrison', 'Y')ou really have no effective understanding of either political reality or rational thought. Seriously. Step back from the internet conspiracy ledge. You are about to fall over.
Nice labeling job. You've insinuated that government conspiracies do not occur - which is false - and that anyone who says to the contrary on the internet is loony - which is also false. What are you, some kind of Zionist?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JayHMorrison', 'T')here is only that silly little thing we have called "Checks and Balances". The president is not a king with absolute authority.
Which didn't stop Abe Lincoln from acting like a king with absolute authority during the Civil War. Nor did your "checks and balances" serve to prevent a rump Congress from conspiring with the post Civil War administration to impose the 14th Amendment on all Americans.
Nor did those "checks and balances" serve to prevent another rump Congress from making the Federal Reserve System to source of all our money, which is debt-money, using which turned capitalism into an economic cancer. It forced perpetual growth to stay ahead of getting eaten alive by the interest which thereafter became legally due the bankers, men who'd done nothing to earn this income, no work to recompense the country for this wealth.
"Checks and balances" -- phooey. Nothing but window dressing. The bankers can get around them. Any branch of government can, too, if the media decide to be complicit. Jews control both the banks and the media. If they decide to turn America into a tyranny (and, at some point, I believe they will), they'll have no more difficulty than the Arkansas National Guard had as they marched high school students into recently integrated Little Rock classrooms at the point of the bayonets attached to their rifles.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JayHMorrison', 'O')nly Congress can tax and spend. Without a willing Congress, a President cannot get much accomplished.
You poor naive fellow. If the armed forces will obey their orders (and, when it comes right down to it, they do, even if they know those orders are unconstitutional), the President can hijack the country at just about any time. Congressmen die as quickly as anyone else if they get shot. So do US Justices. The inertia of custom is about all that has ever kept the Constitutional system in practice, and that is what has been steadily eroded since about 1850.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JayHMorrison', 'T')he Supreme Court is the only body who can determine what the Constitution means. If the President were to start ignoring Congress and the Supreme Court, he would be out just like Richard Nixon.
by Jenab6 » Mon 25 Aug 2008, 12:28:18
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Micki', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')idn't they burn em 1st, then figure out it's cheaper to gas em instead?
If yo are thinking of Germany......no I don't think so. Burning is for getting rid of the bodies afterwards so they don't spread deceases. According to mainstream history they executed a lot wilth guns first, but that was too expensive. Then they came up with the trucks that recycled the exhaust fumes and killed with that. Then came the showers.
The shower tale always was fiction. Some of the Poles still claim to believe it. One of them, a former pen pal, told me that if I'd been alive during WW2, the Nazis would have made me take a shower in a special shower stall that would magically transform me into the bar of soap to be used by the next victim.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Micki', 'I')n the end the gas they used didn't need showers. Cyclon B was simply tablets that could be dropped into the room and it reacted with the air. Modern facilities would probably use fast working chemicals like nerv toxins or similar.
The Nazis HAD access to nerve toxins. They existed then, and Nazi Germany certainly would have been able to mass produce them at need. The very fact that Zyklon B was identified as the source of the gas for exterminating the Jews should tell you that the "Nazi gas chambers" were mythical.
The policy of Nazi Germany toward the Jews was emigration, forced if necessary, and not extermination. Probably more than 90 percent of the Holocaust account is fiction that grew out of WW2 propaganda.
Zyklon B was a fumigant. It was used to kill rats and lice primarily. Although it was used for that purpose in camps such as Auschwitz and Treblinka, it was also used, for the same purpose, in many places where nobody thinks any mass murders were done, such as Oranienburg and Theresienstadt, and most German army camps and air bases. Lice were a particular problem, as they spread the deadly disease typhus. People routinely had their clothing fumigated, as well as anything made of fur or cloth wherein lice might hide.
Anything mass produced gains the cheapness from the economy of scale. That would be as true for any other sort of gas, including those much more efficient at killing people.
In fact,
bullets were very cheap for the simple reason that so many of them were being made that most likely there would have been no savings whatever by choosing gas executions and their required infrastructure over bullets. Note that places where actual genocides took place, gas has never been the method employed. Bullets, yes. Starvation, yes. Machetes, once in a while. Gas, no. Bug fumigant gas, certainly not.
Zyklon B was a trade name of the German firm Degesch which supervised the distribution of this fumigant during World War 2. Zyklon B contained hydrocyanic acid, which was used as a fumigant by the United States Armed Forces from about 1910 to 1975. The HCN was absorbed in a carrier, typically wood pulp or diatomaceous earth. This preparation of pellets was sealed in an airtight can to make handling and transportation safer. It would SLOWLY sublimate at room temperature; however, the logistics required by the Jewish myth would require a quicker release of the gas than simply dropping Zyklon B pellets into the room with them would cause.
by Jenab6 » Mon 25 Aug 2008, 13:12:17
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'H')ow do you see it unfolding, SPG? A single triggering event, multiple, or just a slow boil gradually gathering steam and a social explosion?
Once the homeless camps start building numbers, and enough people have put their kids to bed hungry enough times, I think it's going to explode. The actual inciting even will be something insignificant. The ferocity with which it spreads will seem very sudden and inexplicable to a lot of people....like 911 did. Those have been paying attention will be thinking "Man, I can't believe it took that long to happen." Once it comes down to a fight for survival...for the resources people need to live...I think the American melting pot will explode into a hundred different factions. Urban vs. Rural. Owner vs. worker. In LA and the southeast US, it will be very racial in character.
It will be primarily racial in character. A racially pure population will stand up to a lot more pressure than a racially mixed population can. People don't really believe the "race does not exist" or the "race is only skin deep" or the "there is only one race, the human race" or the "we are all brothers" propaganda lies. They claim to believe those lies because of the penalties for refusing to claim to believe them.
However, in the situation you predict, all that nonsense will have to be abandoned because survival will so require. Race is forever a major fault, a huge crack, a weakness of social structure, which threatens to tumble a racially mixed country into violent chaos - a fact that Wisconsin Cur described very well in one of his posts.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'O')ur tribal nature has been... tamed by abundance. The tribe is most obvious when times are lean and when individuals fall back on "people like me." I have a (morbid) interest in watching how scapegoating and tribalism strengthen over the next few years. People are going to look for someone to blame, who will it be? The oil company tribe? The peak oil tribe? The arab tribe? The illegal immigrant tribe? I don't know but trust me on this... there will be a scapegoat and we will all soon be reminded of which tribe to which we belong. I don't like it, but it is the way things are.
I read ancient Roman, Jewish and Greek texts and it is a story about people. I recognize the emotions and the pain. I see the same crowd demanding circuses and bread. I hear the same mothers weep and father scream for the letting of vengeance's blood. I hear the same fundamentalists and the same calls for compromise. No, the story does not change, just the scenery and some minor details of dialogue.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'H')ow does the list play out? In the midst of the chaos, it's irrelevant. Look at New Orleans. The NOPD weren't out trying to round up suspected dissidents. The NOPD were too busy looting Wal Mart.
by Micki » Mon 25 Aug 2008, 19:59:34
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jenab6', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Micki', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')idn't they burn em 1st, then figure out it's cheaper to gas em instead?
If yo are thinking of Germany......no I don't think so. Burning is for getting rid of the bodies afterwards so they don't spread deceases. According to mainstream history they executed a lot wilth guns first, but that was too expensive. Then they came up with the trucks that recycled the exhaust fumes and killed with that. Then came the showers.
The shower tale always was fiction. Some of the Poles still claim to believe it. One of them, a former pen pal, told me that if I'd been alive during WW2, the Nazis would have made me take a shower in a special shower stall that would magically transform me into the bar of soap to be used by the next victim.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Micki', 'I')n the end the gas they used didn't need showers. Cyclon B was simply tablets that could be dropped into the room and it reacted with the air. Modern facilities would probably use fast working chemicals like nerv toxins or similar.
The Nazis HAD access to nerve toxins. They existed then, and Nazi Germany certainly would have been able to mass produce them at need. The very fact that Zyklon B was identified as the source of the gas for exterminating the Jews should tell you that the "Nazi gas chambers" were mythical.
The policy of Nazi Germany toward the Jews was emigration, forced if necessary, and not extermination. Probably more than 90 percent of the Holocaust account is fiction that grew out of WW2 propaganda.
Zyklon B was a fumigant. It was used to kill rats and lice primarily. Although it was used for that purpose in camps such as Auschwitz and Treblinka, it was also used, for the same purpose, in many places where nobody thinks any mass murders were done, such as Oranienburg and Theresienstadt, and most German army camps and air bases. Lice were a particular problem, as they spread the deadly disease typhus. People routinely had their clothing fumigated, as well as anything made of fur or cloth wherein lice might hide.
Anything mass produced gains the cheapness from the economy of scale. That would be as true for any other sort of gas, including those much more efficient at killing people.
In fact,
bullets were very cheap for the simple reason that so many of them were being made that most likely there would have been no savings whatever by choosing gas executions and their required infrastructure over bullets. Note that places where actual genocides took place, gas has never been the method employed. Bullets, yes. Starvation, yes. Machetes, once in a while. Gas, no. Bug fumigant gas, certainly not.
Zyklon B was a trade name of the German firm Degesch which supervised the distribution of this fumigant during World War 2. Zyklon B contained hydrocyanic acid, which was used as a fumigant by the United States Armed Forces from about 1910 to 1975. The HCN was absorbed in a carrier, typically wood pulp or diatomaceous earth. This preparation of pellets was sealed in an airtight can to make handling and transportation safer. It would SLOWLY sublimate at room temperature; however, the logistics required by the Jewish myth would require a quicker release of the gas than simply dropping Zyklon B pellets into the room with them would cause.
