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THE International Energy Agency (IEA) Thread pt 2 (merged) A

Discuss research and forecasts regarding hydrocarbon depletion.

Re: IEA economist: 'We are headed toward really bad days'

Unread postby Starvid » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 16:31:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '`')`We are saying what needed to be done, not what will be done,'' said Birol, who added the investment decisions will largely be up to OPEC nations. ``If they put their money there they can meet demand.''

Workshop, workshop!

By saying this they can urge everyone to get ready for peak oil, while not admitting that geology is really the problem. Lack of investment is, and as the evil NOC's don't care about the market they won't invest, and we must prepare for energy crunch.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')or every $4 invested in oil infrastructure, $3 will be needed to slow declining rates in existing fields, while $1 will go to new production, Birol said.

At last they are focusing on the important fact that annual declines are three times as big as annual demand growth.

Declines matter!

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... efer=india
Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
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Re: IEA: '$100 irreversible' - 'a serious energy shortage.'

Unread postby americandream » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 16:52:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bas', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'F')rom the article:$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '"')I don't see the political will." Then again, nothing fuels political will like a soaring price at the gas pump.
See, this is where the author and I diverge. The author assumes rationality and levelheadedness on the part of the populace when it figures that it can no longer afford to fill up, and all I see are lines of guillotines and 40-gallon Rubbermaid trash cans.
Jack, where is Emerson and what have you done with him?!
Emerson has opened his eyes and seen the truth. I heard an interesting little item a few days ago...
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')onflict increases with two variables - shortages and diversity

Now, when I write "diversity", people tend to think ethnic diversity - but in this case, it means every type. Age, economic background, religion, ethnic, what-have-you.
So, we're looking at severe and worsening shortages. Certainly of oil, and arguably of everything. And we have lots of diversity - we don't know, and often don't like, our neighbors. We don't share interests with them.
Does that sound like conflict? Does it sound like deadly conflict? Like guillotine level conflict? It should. Look at lots of places and you'll see the same pattern. We're going to turn on each other with a ruthless viciousness that would do a psychopathic killer proud.
Dead serious. Pun intended. 8)

Don't overlook the scientific rationalists amongst us who knew this day was inevitable and are prepared for a new, you may well call authoritarian order.
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Re: IEA: '$100 irreversible' - 'a serious energy shortage.'

Unread postby dinopello » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 17:13:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 'I') heard an interesting little item a few days ago...
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')onflict increases with two variables - shortages and diversity
Now, when I write "diversity", people tend to think ethnic diversity - but in this case, it means every type. Age, economic background, religion, ethnic, what-have-you.

Yea, but diversity exists as long as you aren't the only thing in the universe. And even then, your left hand would be different than your right and thus would be locked in conflict.
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Re: IEA: '$100 irreversible' - 'a serious energy shortage.'

Unread postby Madpaddy » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 17:30:06

I'ld like to know where Jack thinks he will be on the farside of this tunnel we are all entering because the way I see it, chaos, mayhem, random violence and plaque benefits nobody not even the would be warlords or psychos.

The most vicious and ruthless regimes have always presided over totally controlled, disciplined and ordered societies.

A likely future IMO will be a period of 3-5 years of a disordered society bordering on anarchy which will be replaced by a dictatorship and we will all (those of us who are left), welcome it with open arms.
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Re: IEA economist: 'We are headed toward really bad days'

Unread postby Zardoz » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 18:03:09

"Headed toward really bad days"? For many, they're already here:

High-Priced Oil Adds Volatility to Power Scramble

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s the price of oil surges toward a symbolic milestone of $100 a barrel — hitting $96.70 yesterday — it is creating new winners and losers across the globe.

In southern China, high oil prices forced Wang Pui, a trucker, to wait in line 90 minutes the other day to fill up, just to be told he could pump only 25 gallons, as China faced spot shortages of gasoline and diesel fuel.

When Vladimir V. Putin was making Russia’s bid to be host of the 2014 Winter Olympics last July, he reached into the country’s deep pockets, bulging with oil profits, and pledged $12 billion to turn a Black Sea summer resort into a winter-sports paradise. Russia, which was nearly bankrupt a decade ago, won the Games.

The prospect of triple-digit oil prices has redrawn the economic and political map of the world, challenging some old notions of power. Oil-rich nations are enjoying historic gains and opportunities, while major importers — including China and India, home to a third of the world’s population — confront rising economic and social costs.

Managing this new order is fast becoming a central problem of global politics. Countries that need oil are clawing at each other to lock up scarce supplies, and are willing to deal with any government, no matter how unsavory, to do it.

In many poor nations with oil, the proceeds are being lost to corruption, depriving these countries of their best hope for development. And oil is fueling gargantuan investment funds run by foreign governments, which some in the West see as a new threat.

This crap is already going on, and supplies are still, for the most part, sufficient. We all know what's going to happen when the shortages really kick in worldwide.

This is going to really suck.
"Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
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Re: IEA: '$100 irreversible' - 'a serious energy shortage.'

Unread postby Jack » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 18:16:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', 'I')'ld like to know where Jack thinks he will be on the farside of this tunnel we are all entering because the way I see it, chaos, mayhem, random violence and plaque benefits nobody not even the would be warlords or psychos.
The most vicious and ruthless regimes have always presided over totally controlled, disciplined and ordered societies.
A likely future IMO will be a period of 3-5 years of a disordered society bordering on anarchy which will be replaced by a dictatorship and we will all (those of us who are left), welcome it with open arms.

Where will I be? In a grave if I'm lucky. Consumed by wild dogs if I'm not. We can plan, prepare, or whatever, but the coming events will probably deviate from anything we can imagine.

I think you're being rather optimistic when you suggest only 3-5 years of disordered society. Other than that minor quibble, I agree completely.
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Re: IEA: '$100 irreversible' - 'a serious energy shortage.'

Unread postby lexicon » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 19:12:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dukey', 't')he dollar isn't helping-its practally in freefall. 1 US dollar is now 91 canadian cents !!!!!

Damn, I really gotta move up there. Better health care and now better currency!

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Dollar soars beyond $1.09 U.S.
U.S. currency weakness, rise in oil and gold price power historic advance Nov 07, 2007 04:30 AM Madhavi Acharya-Tom Yew
Business Reporter
On a day when the Canadian dollar soared to a record, with oil and gold prices in tow, the Bank of Canada continued to pour cold water on hopes for a cut in interest rates. The potential risks – and benefits – of the higher dollar are greater now than two weeks ago when the central bank made its last report, Paul Jenkins, senior deputy governor of the Bank of Canada, said in a speech in New York yesterday.

On one hand, the higher currency could reduce demand for exports and dampen economic output. On the other, the Canadian economy, with record-low unemployment and strong wages, could overheat because of excessive consumer demand. As a result, the bank's key interest rate is just where it needs to be, Jenkins said.

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Re: IEA economist: 'We are headed toward really bad days'

Unread postby shortonoil » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 19:51:14

Zardoz said:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')his crap is already going on, and supplies are still, for the most part, sufficient. We all know what's going to happen when the shortages really kick in worldwide.

This is going to really suck.


Gee, it certainly is bizarre that SA is calling for a unified Arab military presence to protect their oil fields. You would think that 175,000 US troops would be protection enough. OH - could that be what they are worried about; they don’t appear to be taking steps to leave any time soon (soon as in this century)!

Or is it that the US will soon be so bankrupt that they will have to leave?

Sitting on a few 10’s of trillion in oil can certainly pose a few problems! And YEA, "this is going to really suck"!
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Re: IEA: '$100 irreversible' - 'a serious energy shortage.'

Unread postby DefiledEngine » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 20:36:44

Reality is the best kind of doomer porn.
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Re: IEA: '$100 irreversible' - 'a serious energy shortage.'

Unread postby Jack » Thu 08 Nov 2007, 01:47:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bas', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')onflict increases with two variables - shortages and diversity


Why not make that your new signature Jack, it's so... you!

Personally I've never denied that with Peakoil and other more or less associated problems will come an increased potential for violent conflict, both between countries and within. Within or between what countries I don't know and I've found it pretty fruitless to speculate about it, and I know that applies to you too. However, I do not revel in the prospects like you and some others do. Personally I think that's sick. I enjoyed your comments while I thought you were only half serious and I thought they were pretty funny, but lately you do come across as dead serious enjoying those kind of prospects with an increase of posts (really, do you ever talk about anything else) which have also increased in "grossness".

I could think of more things to say, and it has been on my mind for a while now to "say something about it", so here you go, I hope you won't hold it against me.


Well, let's take a look at this. I'm not sure that revel is entirely correct.

It's true that we cannot and do not know which countries will engage in conflict, or how groups within countries will react. However, I view it as worthwhile to speculate. You surely recall the old phrase, "No battle plan survives contact with the enemy." The same situation exists here; no scenario will survive contact with the realities of peak oil. But the act of planning, of considering possibilities and outcomes has some value - while others sit stunned and inert, we'll already have some ideas of how to react.

As to reveling...I don't know about your conclusion. Now it's quite true that I don't like certain countries; whether that's fair or not is a different matter. But I simply do not like some groups. So if they rip their own nations apart, that's good; I suppose I do revel in that. I suppose I would refer to it as more akin to Schadenfreude.

With regard to other nations or groups (the ones I like), the upcoming events will be - simply stated - tragic. There isn't much any of us can do to avoid some degree of participation in that vast tragedy. But if you've ever played for the highest stakes you'll find that there is a certain adrenalin rush that cannot accurately be portrayed as "bring it on." I think we can accurately state that many of us - quite possibly most of us - will not survive very long if there is a complete societal breakdown. I've seen lots of plans (mine included), and every one of them has holes. Lots of holes. But it is not something that can be avoided or escaped; it must be faced. Perhaps we are in the same situation as WW I troops, going into no man's land, facing machine guns and artillery. We know our likely fate. Perhaps it is the tension of knowing, of waiting for the signal that sends us over the top; but that is not reveling. I do not know precisely what name to apply to it.

Now, as to grossness. Must I point to the events in Rwanda or in Cambodia under Pol Pot? I stand by my statement. People will turn on each other, and they will do it with remarkable viciousness. I regard this as fact, as a fundamental truth. Please refute it, if you can; in truth, I think you cannot. Read about "necklacing". Look up some of the various torture techniques in current use - and by torture, I don't mean water-boarding. Look at what MS-18, an Ecuadorian drug gang does to people. These are reality. And if I may be permitted some gratuitous advice, you would be wise to harden yourself for what is to come. Our resident cornucipians notwithstanding, people are not going to join together in cooperative communities and harvest potatoes in perfect harmony. We - all of us - will get the opportunity to stare into a Hellish abyss.

No joking here. Just my take on what's to come. And since I live well now, and won't live as well (and probably not long) then, I most certainly am not reveling in it.

But I will revel in the pain of the cornucopians. 8)
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Re: IEA: '$100 irreversible' - 'a serious energy shortage.'

Unread postby roccman » Thu 08 Nov 2007, 01:56:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', ' ') Read about "necklacing". 8)


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')ecklacing (sometimes metonymically called Necklace) refers to the practice of execution carried out by forcing a rubber tire, filled with gasoline, around a victim's chest and arms, and setting it on fire.


Holy hell !!!
"There must be a bogeyman; there always is, and it cannot be something as esoteric as "resource depletion." You can't go to war with that." Emersonbiggins
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IEA: World supply up 1.4 mb/d (OMR Thread)

Unread postby kmann » Tue 13 Nov 2007, 16:31:54

According to the IEA Oil Market Report released today, world oil supply is was up 1.4 million barrels per day in October. This is probably what's behind the $4 drop in oil today.
Last edited by kmann on Wed 12 Mar 2008, 00:11:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: IEA: World supply up 1.4 mb/d

Unread postby mkwin » Tue 13 Nov 2007, 16:39:42

If the crude inventory increases tomorrow I think oil is going to fall back to around $80.
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Re: IEA: World supply up 1.4 mb/d

Unread postby bonehead » Tue 13 Nov 2007, 17:56:44

$80 is certainly possible,but for how long?Until spring in the U.S. maybe?
Gimme some demand destruction.
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Re: IEA: World supply up 1.4 mb/d

Unread postby DantesPeak » Tue 13 Nov 2007, 18:19:00

IEA October Oil Production Report – Fact or Fiction?

Has the IEA got this right? While the IEA says that OPEC increased production by 410,000 bpd, it says overall oil supply grew by 1.4 million bpd in October. Where did that come from?

Previously there was some discussion here about the October OPEC production increase, and I stated at that time the possible rise of about 300,000 was in line with other available information. The higher figure represents additional production from Angola and Iraq. Still that does not explain well where the other 1 million barrels per day came from. Supposedly this mostly comes from China, Azerbaijan, and Russian.

If these productions figures are true, output gains from these countries are extraordinary – to say the least. I have not seen other information which confirmed these types of output gains. If anyone has the full IEA Oil Market Report, please give us some further information on exactly where those gains came from.

As to the future, the IEA still projects demand in 2008 well in excess of recent production levels. In the long run, demand can not exceed available supply. Note the following about inventory levels, published by Dow Jones with comments from the IEA:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')eanwhile, OECD oil stocks continued to fall with total forward cover dropping to 52.8 days in September. Inventories in Japan fell to the lowest level in 20 years. "We were expecting a lull in October in the stock draw, but preliminary data in the U.S. and Japan is showing another big stock draw".


I expect we will hear in the first quarter how “demand dropped” again when production doesn’t meet expectations. Will the IEA admit that drops in demand are the flip side of not having enough available supplies? Not likely yet when it sounds so much better to state that demand is dropping instead.


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Re: IEA: World supply up 1.4 mb/d

Unread postby DantesPeak » Tue 13 Nov 2007, 18:36:46

Also keep in mind that Russia and China developed severe fuel shortages in recent weeks – after the IEA says they increased oil production.
It's already over, now it's just a matter of adjusting.
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Re: IEA: World supply up 1.4 mb/d

Unread postby kmann » Tue 13 Nov 2007, 18:42:48

IEA does revise their data, sometimes substantially. We'll see if this number stands unrevised. If it does, I believe it will be a new monthly production high. 86.5 mb/day vs. 86.2 mb/day of July 2006. More importantly, this production level would need to be sustained to drive oil prices lower and keep them there. Possible, but not likely IMO.
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Re: IEA: World supply up 1.4 mb/d

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Tue 13 Nov 2007, 19:03:40

1.4 mb/d increase?

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Re: IEA: World supply up 1.4 mb/d

Unread postby strider3700 » Tue 13 Nov 2007, 19:20:51

The talking heads on CNBC spent all day talking about the decrease in demand being the cause of the drop in oil today. My best guess is demand is really hard to measure accurately so it's the easiest number to manipulate in the long run.
shame on us, doomed from the start
god have mercy on our dirty little hearts
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Re: IEA: World supply up 1.4 mb/d

Unread postby Nano » Tue 13 Nov 2007, 19:27:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mkwin', 'I')f the crude inventory increases tomorrow I think oil is going to fall back to around $80.


I don't think it will make it past 85$, what with the devaluation of the greenback and all. 85$ and then up through $100 in the spring.
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