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THE International Energy Agency (IEA) Thread pt 2 (merged) A

Discuss research and forecasts regarding hydrocarbon depletion.

Re: IEA economist: 'We are headed toward really bad days'

Postby Carlhole » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 08:50:20

Gawd, it's almost hilarious. It's like they just got bitch-slapped into reality.
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Re: IEA economist: 'We are headed toward really bad days'

Postby DantesPeak » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 09:10:58

$100 oil won't bring release of oil to knock back price, says IEA. Perhaps they finally got it through their heads when reserves are gone, they won't be getting replaced anytime soon - if ever.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')EA HEAD: $100/Bbl Oil Won't Trigger Govt Oil Stock Release

DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
November 7, 2007 7:11 a.m.

LONDON (Dow Jones)--A coordinated release of strategic oil stocks would only be implemented if there is a "serious" supply disruption and not just if the oil price hits $100 a barrel, the head of the International Energy Agency said Wednesday.

"No, we won't do it for financial reasons, it has to be for a serious supply disruption," IEA Executive Director Nobuo Tanaka told Dow Jones Newswires when asked if the Paris-based agency would release oil stocks if prices went to $100 a barrel.

Tanaka was speaking on the sidelines of the release in London of the agency's long-term energy outlook that says consumers and governments globally are currently doing too little to improve energy supply security and cut pollution.


Dow Jones/WSJ
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IEA: '$100 irreversible' - 'a serious energy shortage.'

Postby KevO » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 12:13:23

It's OFFICIAL!! AT LAST WE'VE PEAKED
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')The dire predictions of a key report on international oil supplies released Wednesday suggest that oil prices could move irreversibly over the $100 a barrel threshold in the not too distant

This gloomy assessment comes from the International Energy Agency, the Paris-based organization representing the 26 rich, gas-guzzling member nations of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD). The agency is not known for alarmist warnings, and its World Energy Outlook is typically viewed by policy wonks as a solid indicator of global energy supplies. In a marked change from its traditionally bland, measured tones, the IEA's 2007 report says governments need to make urgent, bold decisions on energy policy, or risk massive environmental and energy-supply crises within two decades — crises and shortages that could spark serious global conflicts.
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Re: IEA: '$100 irreversible' - 'a serious energy shortage.'

Postby emersonbiggins » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 12:50:25

From the article:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '"')I don't see the political will." Then again, nothing fuels political will like a soaring price at the gas pump.


See, this is where the author and I diverge. The author assumes rationality and levelheadedness on the part of the populace when it figures that it can no longer afford to fill up, and all I see are lines of guillotines and 40-gallon Rubbermaid trash cans.
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Re: IEA: '$100 irreversible' - 'a serious energy shortage.'

Postby Bas » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 12:59:13

It's OFFICIAL!! They just figured it out!!! ; )
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Re: IEA: '$100 irreversible' - 'a serious energy shortage.'

Postby dukey » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 13:02:47

the dollar isn't helping
its practally in freefall

1 US dollar is now 91 canadian cents !!!!!
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Re: IEA: '$100 irreversible' - 'a serious energy shortage.'

Postby Bas » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 13:25:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'F')rom the article:$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '"')I don't see the political will." Then again, nothing fuels political will like a soaring price at the gas pump.

See, this is where the author and I diverge. The author assumes rationality and levelheadedness on the part of the populace when it figures that it can no longer afford to fill up, and all I see are lines of guillotines and 40-gallon Rubbermaid trash cans.

Jack, where is Emerson and what have you done with him?!
Surely the countries with NOC's are addicted to the oilrevenue and have squeezed those NOC's resulting in underinvestment. Also as countries see that oil will run out, they might start to think they would like to save some from the future, same goes for the expectation of price; a higher expectation of future price does mean an incentive to pump less now and wait untill prices are even higher.
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Re: IEA: '$100 irreversible' - 'a serious energy shortage.'

Postby chris-h » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 14:26:03

i am convinced as of today that a great war will happen soon.It is now unavoidable.start preparing.
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Re: IEA: '$100 irreversible' - 'a serious energy shortage.'

Postby Jack » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 14:57:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bas', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'F')rom the article:$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '"')I don't see the political will." Then again, nothing fuels political will like a soaring price at the gas pump.
See, this is where the author and I diverge. The author assumes rationality and levelheadedness on the part of the populace when it figures that it can no longer afford to fill up, and all I see are lines of guillotines and 40-gallon Rubbermaid trash cans.
Jack, where is Emerson and what have you done with him?!

Emerson has opened his eyes and seen the truth.

I heard an interesting little item a few days ago...
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')onflict increases with two variables - shortages and diversity

Now, when I write "diversity", people tend to think ethnic diversity - but in this case, it means every type. Age, economic background, religion, ethnic, what-have-you.

So, we're looking at severe and worsening shortages. Certainly of oil, and arguably of everything. And we have lots of diversity - we don't know, and often don't like, our neighbors. We don't share interests with them.

Does that sound like conflict? Does it sound like deadly conflict? Like guillotine level conflict? It should. Look at lots of places and you'll see the same pattern. We're going to turn on each other with a ruthless viciousness that would do a psychopathic killer proud.

Dead serious. Pun intended. 8)
Dieoff. Fun to watch. Better with hot buttered popcorn! [smilie=new_popcornsmiley.gif]
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Re: IEA: '$100 irreversible' - 'a serious energy shortage.'

Postby Bas » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 15:14:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')onflict increases with two variables - shortages and diversity


Why not make that your new signature Jack, it's so... you!

Personally I've never denied that with Peakoil and other more or less associated problems will come an increased potential for violent conflict, both between countries and within. Within or between what countries I don't know and I've found it pretty fruitless to speculate about it, and I know that applies to you too. However, I do not revel in the prospects like you and some others do. Personally I think that's sick. I enjoyed your comments while I thought you were only half serious and I thought they were pretty funny, but lately you do come across as dead serious enjoying those kind of prospects with an increase of posts (really, do you ever talk about anything else) which have also increased in "grossness".

I could think of more things to say, and it has been on my mind for a while now to "say something about it", so here you go, I hope you won't hold it against me.
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Re: IEA: '$100 irreversible' - 'a serious energy shortage.'

Postby emersonbiggins » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 15:27:45

I'm not looking forward to the chaos because, frankly, it's chaos, meaning Jack or myself are at least as susceptible to becoming tonight's entertainment as is Cheney or Tillerson. Taking that presumable outcome seriously is one of the least things one could do with respect to peak oil. Jack may revel in it; I certainly joke about it, but, like teh internets, it's serious business.
"It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."

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Re: IEA economist: 'We are headed toward really bad days'

Postby Twilight » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 15:37:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'G')awd, it's almost hilarious. It's like they just got bitch-slapped into reality.

Everyone feared that's what it would take, didn't they?

Gerontion, it's (b). The numbers are soothing, but they have to show growth somewhere. The cautionary words tell it like it is. These reports are littered with caveats, and that is where the content is.
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Re: IEA economist: 'We are headed toward really bad days'

Postby Eli » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 15:43:31

Yeah I remember the days when we thought the IEA was being continually over optimistic.

I for one welcome them over to the doomer side, although I think their time line is still too optimistic.
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Re: IEA economist: 'We are headed toward really bad days'

Postby Bas » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 15:49:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gerontion', '
')
“Their (OPEC) collective output of conventional crude oil, natural gas liquids and non-conventional oil (mainly gas-to-liquids) is projected to climb from 36 mb/d in 2006 to 46 mb/d in 2015 and 61 mb/d in 2030 in the Reference Scenario. As a result, OPEC’s share of world oil supply jumps from 42% now to 52% by the end of the projection period. Non-OPEC production rises only slowly to 2030, with most of the increase coming from nonconventional sources – mainly Canadian oil sands – as conventional output levels off at around 47 mb/d by the middle of the 2010s. These projections are based on the assumption that the average IEA crude oil import price falls back from recent highs of over $75 per barrel to around $60 (in year-2006 dollars) by 2015 and then recovers slowly, reaching $62 (or $108 in nominal terms) by 2030.”



How do they come up with such BS? A random number generator could do better than that.
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Re: IEA economist: 'We are headed toward really bad days'

Postby DomusAlbion » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 15:56:27

The truth is that the IEA is staying true to form based on their past performance. That is, they are still being too optimistic. This can only mean that things are much worse than they dare say in public. :twisted:

We'll be going after Iran soon and the French will be with us this time.
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Re: IEA: '$100 irreversible' - 'a serious energy shortage.'

Postby pup55 » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 16:00:42

IEA WEO Executive Summary
For those who wish to spend 150 Euros on this document I have linked the 12-page Executive Summary.
Highlights:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')eveloping countries, whose economies and populations are growing fastest, contribute 74% of the increase in global primary energy use in this scenario.
China and India
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')orld oil resources are judged to be sufficient to meet the projected growth in demand to 2030, with output becoming more concentrated in OPEC countries – on the assumption that the necessary investment is forthcoming.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')hina, with four times as many people, overtakes the United States to become the world’s largest energy consumer soon after 2010.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')il demand for transport almost quadruples between 2005 and 2030, contributing more than two-thirds of the overall increase in Chinese oil demand. The vehicle fleet expands seven-fold, reaching almost 270 million. New vehicle sales in China exceed those of the United States by around 2015
.$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')conomic expansion in China and India is generating opportunities for other countries to export to them, while increasing other countries’ access to a wider range of competitively priced imported products and services. But growing exports from China and India also increase competitive pressures on other countries, leading to structural adjustments, particularly in countries with competing export industries.$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'R')ising global energy demand poses a real and growing threat to the world’s energy security.$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'U')rgent action is needed if greenhouse-gas concentrations are to be stabilised at a level that would prevent dangerous interference with the climate system.$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he emergence of China and India as major players in global energy markets makes it all the more important that all countries take decisive and urgent action to curb runaway energy demand.
So the essence of this is: China and India energy consumption is growing. It is basically beneficial to the world economy if everyone allows them to do this (according to this theory).

However, if we keep doing things the way we are. will all start shooting each other for oil, and/or have a lot of problems with global warming.

If the goverment action happens, and everybody learns to share, it is potentially manageable. But, if things keep going the way they are, there are going to be a lot of problems.
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Re: IEA economist: 'We are headed toward really bad days'

Postby Bas » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 16:04:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DomusAlbion', 'T')he truth is that the IEA is staying true to form based on their past performance. That is, they are still being too optimistic. This can only mean that things are much worse than they dare say in public. :twisted:

We'll be going after Iran soon and the French will be with us this time.


I fully agree, apart from the Iran part. They are printing new lies to cover up their old lies (or past incompetence) and try to save some of their credibility.

With their increasingly diverging statements (really bad days vs sixty 2006 dollar /barrel in 2015) they seem to be on the highway to a mental hospital.
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Re: IEA economist: 'We are headed toward really bad days'

Postby Twilight » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 16:14:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bas', 'W')ith their increasingly diverging statements

As though it is written by an international committee with diverging interests? That could be part of the problem.
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Re: IEA economist: 'We are headed toward really bad days'

Postby Bas » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 16:21:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Twilight', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bas', 'W')ith their increasingly diverging statements

As though it is written by an international committee with diverging interests? That could be part of the problem.


yes, that question puts itself to the forefront now more than ever before. What kind of internal politics and maybe external string pulling is going on that results in these contradictory statements? I can think of only two answers: genuine incompetence or political conspiracy. (or some combination of the two)
Last edited by Bas on Wed 07 Nov 2007, 16:25:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: IEA economist: 'We are headed toward really bad days'

Postby Starvid » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 16:24:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gerontion', 'W')hich seems directly to contradict the first part of the paragraph, unless either (a) the authors think there will be a 5 to 7 year period of unmet demand followed by an explosion in production, (b) they’re saying that the Reference Scenario is a load of bollocks or (c) – and much more likely – I’ve been an idiot and misunderstood something.

I think it's (c).

They are saying:

1. We are in deep trouble, lots of talk but no workshop.

2. Production will increase, if we see workshop.

3. We're not seeing workshop.

4. We are in deep trouble.

5. And lo and behold (2), we've covered our asses.
Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
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