[mgibbons19]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lardlad', '.')..

In fact, your voluble presence here is highly depressing. If this site cannot re-educate troglodytes like you into better behaviours, I question its usefulness. ...

[lardlad]

mgibbons, I think you are specop would be happier elsewhere. Just a suggestion. There are lots of boards on the net where your views would be warmly welcomed.

[killJOY]

Hey lardlad?

DON'T BOTHER.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lardlad', 'S')pecop, what makes your remarks so ludicrous is that you're obviously defending your personal decision to buy one of these behemoths. You are not a dispassionate and disinterested (meaning uninvolved) commentator.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lardlad', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'S')UV's meet the same emissions as other cars. So how do they "overpollute"? ... As for overconsume and get fat, what does that have to do with SUV's? How is an SUV driver "overconsuming"? Overconsuming what?

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lardlad', 'm')gibbons, I think you are specop would be happier elsewhere. Just a suggestion. There are lots of boards on the net where your views would be warmly welcomed.

[ALBY]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lardlad', 'm')gibbons, I think you are specop would be happier elsewhere. Just a suggestion. There are lots of boards on the net where your views would be warmly welcomed.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('killJOY', 'H')ey lardlad?

DON'T BOTHER.

[rockdoc123]

At the risk of appearing to agree with the seemingly "evil" pro-SUV camp I thought I would reiterate an analysis I did sometime ago....it ended up being a short thread for one reason or another:
Suv thread

I was mainly interested in the idea that SUV's were a huge problem in comparison to cars currently on the road. The results of my analysis, granted that they require some guesstimates were in summary:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')I looked at 88 cars and 48 SUV’s…..I purposefully did not include 4WD cars in the car category but also did not include things like smart cars or hybrids….rationale being that there is not yet a huge percentage of those on the roads. Fitting a distribution to the city mpg I arrived at a mean mpg for SUV’s of 15.49 mpg with a 10% of 13 mpg and a 90% of 18 mpg. For cars the mean was 21 mpg with a 90% of 30 mpg and a 10% of 16 mpg.

To cut a long story short the following were the results based on a Monte Carlo simulation:
SUV fuel consumption per year: Mean=794.6 gallons, 10%=374.19 gallons, 90%=1,330.9 gallons
Car fuel consumption per year: Mean=619.4 gallons, 10%=251.2 gallons, 90%=1,103.8 gallons

Difference in fuel consumption per year : The mean case would have an average SUV owner consuming 175.2 gallons more than a car owner, 90% of the time that SUV owner would consume 462.2 gallons more than the car owner and there would be a 10% probablility that the SUV owner would actually consume 77 gallons less than an average car owner (this is because the most fuel efficient SUV’s actually have better mileage ratings than the least fuel efficient cars).

And finally I made a leaping assumption that there might now be about 40 MM SUV’s on the road (there were 24 MM in 2002 and I could not find a later number). I then assumed that the consumption in the US is currently around 9 MMB/day of gasoline. The resultant percentage decrease in gasoline consumption by making all the SUV drivers sell their vehicles and purchase the “average” car was: mean decrease in gasoline consumption of 5%/annum with a 10% probability that you could actually increase consumption by 2%/annum. When I look at this and think that the increase in gasoline consumption between 2004 and 2005 US driving season was close to 2% (sorry can’t remember where I saw that number) it makes me think this whole “SUV’s are the problem” is a bit of a tempest in a teapot. Making everyone convert is not going to make a tremendous difference in a single year and that impact would be obliterated in 2 years time (assuming all things equal on the demand side of the equation).

[lardlad]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '.').. you'll realize SUV's represent one small part of the problem.

[Madpaddy]

Hey Spec,

Just curious and maybe this was answered earlier in the thread but I am too lazy to go and look for it just now.

Did you buy an SUV after you found out about PO?

Certainly, it makes no sense to ditch the SUV and exchange it for a new smaller car if husbanding of scarce resource is the aim of the game. 4 years ago (before I was PO aware) I would have loved to drive an SUV because of the comfort, space and high driving position. Now, I would not consider buying one for a number of reasons.

A. Roads in Ireland especially in towns are very narrow and it would be scratched.

B. Most importantly, the cost of runing an SUV with road tax, insurance and fuel consumption is too high - although Diesel SUV models get 28-30 mpg on average. My current car a diesel FIAT 6 seater people carrier gets 46 mpg (imperial gallons).

C. The engine emissions for an SUV are quite a bit higher than for a standard car. I am trying to reduce my carbon footprint as much as possible. I think that individuals should do their best to conserve resources as much as possible - every little bit helps.

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', '
')Certainly, it makes no sense to ditch the SUV and exchange it for a new smaller car if husbanding of scarce resource is the aim of the game.

[lardlad]

Half new car sales or thereabouts are SUVs in Murka. They have 3-4x the consumption of small econoboxes like the Prius.
And you're telling me that getting rid of them and switching over to low consumption vehicles will make no difference, give us no more time to cope with PO at all?

If that's true, then I'll eat my hat.

[killJOY]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nd what a glorious society we would have if men and women would regulate their affairs, as do the millions of cells in the developing embryo.


Hans Spemann, 1938

[Madpaddy]

Ok sorry,

Let me clarify my last post.

My point is that if you already own an SUV, then selling it off and buying a NEW car is wasteful because of the resources expended in building the new car. I don't know what the mileage of a petrol SUV in the US is but I suspect it is 16-22 mpg (imperial gallons, please feel free to correct me). The average standard car in the US does what? 20-26 mpg. So, what is the big saving there?

If you have to buy a new car then obviously it makes good practical and environmental sense to buy either a diesel or small petrol model.

But, ranting against owners of SUVs, is detracting from the real root of the problem which is the lack of government incentive or pressure on the automobile industry to increase vehicle fuel efficiency. Why also pray tell is the diesel engine almost as rare as the holy grail in the US. If US cars had European fuel consumption figure it would push the peak out by a few years.

[lardlad]

While the average new car gets approximately 28 miles to the gallon (m.p.g.) on the highway (and several models exceed 40 m.p.g.), most SUVs get less than 20 m.p.g. - and some popular models get at an appalling 12-16 m.p.g.

[lardlad]

You know, reading the belligerent and slightly insane rantings of these huge 5-ton vehicle owners, bloated and savage with hubris, their faces aflame with selfishness, greed and self-righteous rage, I'm starting to see Monte's point about more aggressive forms of downsizing the population.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lardlad', 'W')hile the average new car gets approximately 28 miles to the gallon (m.p.g.) on the highway (and several models exceed 40 m.p.g.), most SUVs get less than 20 m.p.g. - and some popular models get at an appalling 12-16 m.p.g.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', 'H')ey Spec,

Just curious and maybe this was answered earlier in the thread but I am too lazy to go and look for it just now.

Did you buy an SUV after you found out about PO?

Certainly, it makes no sense to ditch the SUV and exchange it for a new smaller car if husbanding of scarce resource is the aim of the game. 4 years ago (before I was PO aware) I would have loved to drive an SUV because of the comfort, space and high driving position. Now, I would not consider buying one for a number of reasons.

A. Roads in Ireland especially in towns are very narrow and it would be scratched.

B. Most importantly, the cost of runing an SUV with road tax, insurance and fuel consumption is too high - although Diesel SUV models get 28-30 mpg on average. My current car a diesel FIAT 6 seater people carrier gets 46 mpg (imperial gallons).

C. The engine emissions for an SUV are quite a bit higher than for a standard car. I am trying to reduce my carbon footprint as much as possible. I think that individuals should do their best to conserve resources as much as possible - every little bit helps.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lardlad', 'Y')ou know, reading the belligerent and slightly insane rantings of these huge 5-ton vehicle owners, bloated and savage with hubris, their faces aflame with selfishness, greed and self-righteous rage, I'm starting to see Monte's point about more aggressive forms of downsizing the population.