[Peleg]

Was this thing ever for real?

[ROCKMAN]

An important point to consider when thinking about the so called Iran blockade. The oil that leaves Iran by tanker doesn't belong to Iran: it belongs to the purchasers who are Europeans for the most part. Typically the title to the oil is transfered to the importers before it's even pumped from storage. And the tankers are not owned by Iran. Blockading Itanian exports would be no different than stopping a Greek owned tanker as it was trying to dock in Germany.

Anyone think this would sit well with our "allies"?

[dorlomin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ROCKMAN', 'A')n important point to consider when thinking about the so called Iran blockade. The oil that leaves Iran by tanker doesn't belong to Iran: it belongs to the purchasers who are Europeans for the most part. Typically the title to the oil is transfered to the importers before it's even pumped from storage. And the tankers are not owned by Iran. Blockading Itanian exports would be no different than stopping a Greek owned tanker as it was trying to dock in Germany.

Anyone think this would sit well with our "allies"?

[dorlomin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SILENTTODD', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('idiom', 'A') war with Iran will leave America in control of a huge swathe of the Middle East running from Afghanistan to Iraq.

With that size Islamic population under American occupation, with that amount of Oil under Ameircan control, the balance of global power destabilse quickly.

[ROCKMAN]

Well detailed dorlomin. I suppose if the US offered to replace the lost EU imports with our oil they might support us. OK...everyone in congress ready to start exporting our oil to Europe raise you hands.

Hmmm....thought so.

[Viper]

I think you guys have the bills backwards. The proposal is not to prevent Iran from exporting anything. The proposed blockade is to prevent Iran from being able to IMPORT refined petroleum products.

AKA - the proposal is to cut off 40% of Iran's current oil consumption.

[IndigoMoon]

I wish I would have kept copies of this from the time it was introduced. I think the wording has been changing. The co-sponsor count is now at 252.
LINK
H.CON.RES.362
Title: Expressing the sense of Congress regarding the threat posed to international peace, stability in the Middle East, and the vital national security interests of the United States by Iran's pursuit of nuclear weapons and regional hegemony, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Rep Ackerman, Gary L. [NY-5] (introduced 5/22/2008) Cosponsors (252)
Related Bills: S.RES.580
Latest Major Action: 5/22/2008 Referred to House committee. Status: Referred to the House Committee on Foreign Affairs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SUMMARY AS OF:
5/22/2008--Introduced.

Declares that preventing Iran from acquiring a nuclear weapons capability through economic, political, and diplomatic means is vital to U.S. national security.

Urges the President to use his authority to impose sanctions on: (1) Iranian banks engaged in proliferation activities or the support of terrorist groups; (2) international banks which conduct financial transactions with proscribed Iranian banks; (3) energy companies with large investments in the Iranian petroleum or natural gas sector; and (4) all companies which do business with Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps.

Demands that the President initiate an international effort to increase economic, political, and diplomatic pressure on Iran to suspend its nuclear enrichment activities.

Urges the President to lead a regional diplomatic effort to support the legitimate governments in the region against Iranian destabilization efforts.

[idiom]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'U')rges the President to lead a regional diplomatic effort to support the legitimate governments in the region against Iranian destabilization efforts.

[ROCKMAN]

Viper --that's a great point if correct. But then it makes me wonder who is selling refined products to Iran. I also wonder how they would respond to the US killing their cash flow. You have an idea who their sources are?

[Viper]

India used to be a big gasoline source for Iran, but I think they've cut off Iran's credit. Not sure who picked up after that...

Did find this interesting quote though:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')ran imported 150,000 barrels per day of gasoline in 2005, versus total consumption of 400,000 bpd, making it the second biggest gasoline importer after the United States, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration.

[ROCKMAN]

Thanks viper. I'll dig around a little too. This may be a more interesting thread than I thought at first

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('idiom', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'U')rges the President to lead a regional diplomatic effort to support the legitimate governments in the region against Iranian destabilization efforts.

[hermit]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '
')
But of course, the last time we really tried to help Lebanon our troops got blown up.

[SILENTTODD]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dorlomin', 'B')ritain ruled India for over 100 years with an army totaling about 30 000 (in India). (Indias population would have been in the region of 300 million). It did this by using local troops to do the occupying, like say hiring the Nothern Alliance in Afghanistan and creating the Badr dominated Iraqi Army in Iraq (also using local levies like the 'Iraq Awakening' in Sunni and Peshmerga in Kurdistan. To occupy the Iranian oil region woudl require defeating the Iranian army in the field and by and large driving them out of Khunenistan (sp?) which is prodominantly ethnic Arab and simply creating a force to self govern the region.

Imperialism is not about occupying everything yourself, but getting locals onside to do the job for you. The failure of the neocons is they got caught up in there rhetoric of the early 90s (The End of History and the Last Man Standing they boasted loudly) the beleif they had the only true answer to liberety, while they were co-opted by agressive imperialist ambitions (often in the same person) that they were never a real imperialist force nor a liberator.

But that does not mean they cannot learn as Patreaus' Iraqi Awakening proves. Dont discount an invasion because you cannot concieve of how it will work. Its a low probibility outcome though due to real politik in Baghdad, Aman and Cairo.......

[Jotapay]

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtex ... l=h111-875

HR 875 establishes the regulation of all food production and storage facilities. Want to grow your own food and store it? You have to keep minutely detailed records and samples now to prove it's safe and must submit to inspections. I suppose if you don't keep all the records showing you meet the requirements that the Fed dreams up for your little garden patch, they will supposedly shut you down and you can't grow vegetables then.

Canning tomatoes in your kitchen will be regulated as a "Category 4 Food Establishment" and "FOOD PRODUCTION FACILITY".

Also, $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')ection 3, (14) FOOD PRODUCTION FACILITY- The term ‘food production facility’ means any farm, ranch, orchard, vineyard, aquaculture facility, or confined animal-feeding operation.

[Ludi]

To hell with them!

[wisconsindoomslut]

i belive this is only if you plan on selling to the public AND
even if it's not.......how could "they" ever enforce it????????

[Jotapay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsindoomslut', 'i') belive this is only if you plan on selling to the public AND
even if it's not.......how could "they" ever enforce it????????

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsindoomslut', 'i') belive this is only if you plan on selling to the public AND
even if it's not.......how could "they" ever enforce it????????

[Pops]

Christ, when will you folks come to realize you have no excuse to not plant a garden and can some food.

The Zombies are in your brain.