[Revi]

Werner used to make a very good ladder. They made a great product, but their top management probably killed the business. Now they are arranging how much of it to loot. What do you think happens when a ship goes down? The top folks get in the lifeboats, while the lower classes are locked below the decks.
They struck up the band on the Titanic and all the middle class passengers were given extra canapes while the ship tilted towards oblivion. I can hear the music now, can't you? This economic system is just beginning to take on water.

[mortifiedpenguin]

Listen, guys, I'm sorry. Really, I am. I plagiarized JohnDenver's writing, and it was wrong of me to do so. But let me clarify something. I believe in Peak Oil. What I don't believe in is a Peak Oil Grand Depression. No, I don't believe everything is "just fine." Energy prices have risen quite a bit since the beginning of the year, there is chaos in the Middle East, and inflation has become a growing concern.

But I just don't believe it's going to end like this. We have so many sources of alternative energy. Biodiesel, solar, wind, hydro, nuclear, ethanol, hydrogen, coal, natural gas, geothermal- the list goes on. Granted, we still need to do a lot more research into these things (especially hydrogen, which is a big waste so far), but we're researching these alternatives every day.

So once again, I deeply apologize for plagiarizing JohnDenver's work. I deeply apologize for insulting all of you. And I wish you all well in the future.

[drew]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', 'I') think it had a lot more to do with poor than black.

[rwwff]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('drew', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', 'I') think it had a lot more to do with poor than black.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mortifiedpenguin', 'B')ut I just don't believe it's going to end like this. We have so many sources of alternative energy. Biodiesel, solar, wind, hydro, nuclear, ethanol, hydrogen, coal, natural gas, geothermal- the list goes on. Granted, we still need to do a lot more research into these things (especially hydrogen, which is a big waste so far), but we're researching these alternatives every day.

[Falconoffury]

Mortifiedpenguin, you sound like a classic uninformed optimist. The number of methods for generating energy are great, but their ability to replace oil is very limited. You said that we are researching alternatives, but that doesn't mean the research will help. Do some research on what would be required for alternatives to replace oil, and come back to us.

[ClubOfRomeII]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Falconoffury', ' ')You said that we are researching alternatives, but that doesn't mean the research will help.

[rwwff]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'A')nd even if it shows up, it won't be as cheap, readiliy available, as energy dense, as portable and as scalable...and it must be.

Peak oil is about the end of cheap access to energy.

That will bring the depression, not a lack of energy.

[ClubOfRomeII]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', '
')
Maybe a depression with expensive energy is just the right medicine to refocus cultures and civilizations towards low energy, low impact lifestyles.

[Revi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ClubOfRomeII', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', '
')
Maybe a depression with expensive energy is just the right medicine to refocus cultures and civilizations towards low energy, low impact lifestyles.

[ClubOfRomeII]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', '
')
Where else are going to go? Where is energy cheaper than here? Venezuela? A friend of mine just got back from England. They rented a car and paid over 2 pounds per litrefor gas! There's no place else to go where the lifestyle isn't so limited.

[ohanian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', '
') Where else are going to go? Where is energy cheaper than here? Venezuela? A friend of mine just got back from England. They rented a car and paid over 2 pounds per litrefor gas! There's no place else to go where the lifestyle isn't so limited.

[ClubOfRomeII]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ohanian', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', '
') Where else are going to go? Where is energy cheaper than here? Venezuela? A friend of mine just got back from England. They rented a car and paid over 2 pounds per litrefor gas! There's no place else to go where the lifestyle isn't so limited.

[MonteQuest]

Something tells me it might be time to bump this thread up.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ClubOfRomeII', '.')..
I just read an article that gasoline and heating oil prices in Iraq were at their highest point in like years?
...

[DantesPeak]

I also find the Depression of 1920s and 1930s to be very interesting. Yes, it started for the farmers in the 1920s. It could be argued that the Fed, by allowing a great expansion of credit in the late 1920s, postponed a developing depression by about two years - but that made the resulting depression worse.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')merican farmers—who represented one-quarter of the economy—were already in an economic depression during the 1920s, which made it difficult for them to take part in the consumer buying spree. Farmers had expanded their output during World War I, when demand for farm goods was high and production in Europe was cut sharply. But after the war, farmers found themselves competing in an over-supplied international market. Prices fell, and farmers were often unable to sell their products for a profit.

[Revi]

Farming is a hard way to make a living now. We're having a third year of not much sap coming from our maple trees. We have produced a little more than half of what we usually do for the past 2 years. This year is shaping up to be the same... Unless we get a big run in the next two weeks. Hope springs eternal.

We use wood to boil down sap and make maple syrup, but the big guys use oil. It must be more expensive to do it every year, and their profit margin is shrinking, with the price of fuel. Their taxes don't go down any either. I don't see how they can keep doing it.

I can't see how anyone who is dependent on fossil fuels to make their product can do it. Lobstermen are getting 65 cents less per pound than they were last year. The price of fuel has doubled.

[Leanan]

Heh. I just remembered this thread. Monte started it back in 2005, saying:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n particular, the FED's efforts to lower interest rates have caused an asset bubble to form around real estate. People tend to over-invest when interest rates are low and when interest rates are raised to stave off the inevitable inflation, the bubble pops. That process is under way as I write this. Throughout the years preceding the Stock Market crash of 1929, the Fed did just that. The Fed set below market interest rates and low reserve requirements that all favored easy credit. The money supply actual increased by about 60% during this time. The phrase "buying on margin" entered the American vocabulary at this time as more and more Americans over-extended themselves to take advantage of the soaring stock market. Today, it is the housing market, and to some extent the stock market again. It was in 1929 that the Fed realized that it could not sustain its current policy. When it started to raise interest rates, the whole house of cards collapsed. The FED is starting to raise interest rates now for the same reason--to cool off consumer spending/speculation and reel in the trade deficit.

[JohnDenver]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Leanan', 'H')eh. I just remembered this thread. Monte started it back in 2005, saying:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n particular, the FED's efforts to lower interest rates have caused an asset bubble to form around real estate. People tend to over-invest when interest rates are low and when interest rates are raised to stave off the inevitable inflation, the bubble pops. That process is under way as I write this. Throughout the years preceding the Stock Market crash of 1929, the Fed did just that. The Fed set below market interest rates and low reserve requirements that all favored easy credit. The money supply actual increased by about 60% during this time. The phrase "buying on margin" entered the American vocabulary at this time as more and more Americans over-extended themselves to take advantage of the soaring stock market. Today, it is the housing market, and to some extent the stock market again. It was in 1929 that the Fed realized that it could not sustain its current policy. When it started to raise interest rates, the whole house of cards collapsed. The FED is starting to raise interest rates now for the same reason--to cool off consumer spending/speculation and reel in the trade deficit.