Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

THE War in Iraq Thread pt 2 (merged)

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Iraq and Afghanistan

Unread postby Buggy » Wed 19 Aug 2009, 21:21:50

Sorry, don't mean to be like the politicians averting questions. The answer you are looking for is the dollar eventually ends up feeding back into the American Economic Engine.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', 'B')uggy you did not answer the question you were replying to.

We are no longer talking about the Chinese. You just repeated what I already said:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Buggy', 'H')e's opening his wallet to lock up oil and minerals in South America and Africa.


The Chinese now have X tons of iron and copper ore, and it is now the Australians (or South Americans or Africans, if you will) who have the $10.1 billion US dollars. Tell me: What now happens to that $10.1 billion US dollars which are now in Australian, South American or African hands? Please answer the question. Thank you.
"We have flown up our own collective numeric bung-hole."
James Howard Kunstler
Buggy
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon 23 Jun 2008, 03:00:00

Re: Iraq and Afghanistan

Unread postby copious.abundance » Wed 19 Aug 2009, 21:52:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', 'S')orry, don't mean to be like the politicians averting questions. The answer you are looking for is the dollar eventually ends up feeding back into the American Economic Engine.

Very good Buggy, you have won the prize.

Image

Now I believe it's time to reflect upon this little "follow the $10.1 billion" exercise. Recall that this $10.1 billion USD began as $10 billion in that oh-so-dreaded US government "debt." Bad, bad debt. Nasty, horrendous debt we will never be able to pay back. Oh the burden! But once you play the "follow the $10 billion" thought experiment to its ultimate end game, you discover that this nasty, nasty debt will actually end up making the USofA even richer in the long term.

Amazing, ain't it. Pretty devious too (in a totally unintentional way), I might add. But as long as others are willing to play the game, I sure ain't complaining.

:twisted: :razz:

As we speak, the Chinese are sitting on about $2.3 trillion in foreign exchange reserves. About 70% of that is in US dollars. That's $1.61 trillion US dollars which - someday - will eventually have to come back home to America. It's not legal tender anywhere else (aside from a couple small nations), so all the Chinese can do with that massive pile of money is spend it on imports. After they spend it on imports, the USD they used to pay for those imports will someday come back home. And the only way it can come back home is if China, or Australia, or Africa, or South America buys some physical good from the US (services will do fine, too). Let's say the Chinese bought all of Australia's minerals, gas and oil for $10.1 billion. Now the Australians have $10.1 billion USD sitting in their forex reserves. The only way to "once and for all" get rid of that $10.1 USD would be for the Australians to buy, say, $10.1 billion USD in Boeing airplanes, or Chevy Corvettes, or something else "Made in the USA." Even buying Treasuries will only get them more USD after the Treasuries mature - plus interest. Back to square one.

In other words, at some point in the future the US will have to run large trade surpluses, or at least small surpluses over a long period of time. The alternative is for nations like China and Australia to continue to pile on foreign reserves indefinitely. There's not much point to that. It would be like stuffing $20 trillion under a mattress with no intention of ever doing anything with it.
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
User avatar
copious.abundance
Fission
Fission
 
Posts: 9589
Joined: Wed 26 Mar 2008, 03:00:00
Location: Cornucopia

Re: Iraq and Afghanistan

Unread postby Buggy » Wed 19 Aug 2009, 21:58:18

I finally won something! Like I have said before, I hope(wish?) you are right.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', 'S')orry, don't mean to be like the politicians averting questions. The answer you are looking for is the dollar eventually ends up feeding back into the American Economic Engine.

Very good Buggy, you have won the prize.

Image

Now I believe it's time to reflect upon this little "follow the $10.1 billion" exercise. Recall that this $10.1 billion USD began as $10 billion in that oh-so-dreaded US government "debt." Bad, bad debt. Nasty, horrendous debt we will never be able to pay back. Oh the burden! But once you play the "follow the $10 billion" thought experiment to its ultimate end game, you discover that this nasty, nasty debt will actually end up making the USofA even richer in the long term.

Amazing, ain't it. Pretty devious too (in a totally unintentional way), I might add. But as long as others are willing to play the game, I sure ain't complaining.

:twisted: :razz:

As we speak, the Chinese are sitting on about $2.3 trillion in foreign exchange reserves. About 70% of that is in US dollars. That's $1.61 trillion US dollars which - someday - will eventually have to come back home to America. It's not legal tender anywhere else (aside from a couple small nations), so all the Chinese can do with that massive pile of money is spend it on imports. After they spend it on imports, the USD they used to pay for those imports will someday come back home. And the only way it can come back home is if China, or Australia, or Africa, or South America buys some physical good from the US (services will do fine, too). Let's say the Chinese bought all of Australia's minerals, gas and oil for $10.1 billion. Now the Australians have $10.1 billion USD sitting in their forex reserves. The only way to "once and for all" get rid of that $10.1 USD would be for the Australians to buy, say, $10.1 billion USD in Boeing airplanes, or Chevy Corvettes, or something else "Made in the USA." Even buying Treasuries will only get them more USD after the Treasuries mature - plus interest. Back to square one.

In other words, at some point in the future the US will have to run large trade surpluses, or at least small surpluses over a long period of time. The alternative is for nations like China and Australia to continue to pile on foreign reserves indefinitely. There's not much point to that. It would be like stuffing $20 trillion under a mattress with no intention of ever doing anything with it.
"We have flown up our own collective numeric bung-hole."
James Howard Kunstler
Buggy
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon 23 Jun 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Iraq war was illegal, Dutch panel rules

Unread postby Bas » Wed 13 Jan 2010, 11:45:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he war in Iraq had "no basis in international law", a Dutch inquiry found today, in the first ever independent legal assessment of the decision to invade.

In a series of damning findings, a seven-member panel in the Netherlands concluded that the war, which was supported by the Dutch government following intelligence from Britain and the US, had not been justified in law.

"The Dutch government lent its political support to a war whose purpose was not consistent with Dutch government policy," the inquiry in the Hague concluded. "The military action had no sound mandate in international law."

The Guardian

this is causing considerable political turmoil here right now...
Bas
 
Top

Re: Iraq war was illegal, Dutch panel rules

Unread postby Jotapay » Wed 13 Jan 2010, 11:48:17

Of course it was. They deliberately lied about WMD and whipped everyone into a frenzy to justify a pre-planned invasion.

If people aren't wise to this fact already, then they need to pull their head out their arse.
Jotapay
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3394
Joined: Sat 21 Jun 2008, 03:00:00

Re: Iraq war was illegal, Dutch panel rules

Unread postby Jotapay » Wed 13 Jan 2010, 11:49:41

Why don't you declare Bush-2 and Cheney war criminals and use Interpol (which now has diplomatic immunity in the USA) to rendition them to international court?
Jotapay
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3394
Joined: Sat 21 Jun 2008, 03:00:00

Re: Iraq war was illegal, Dutch panel rules

Unread postby Bas » Wed 13 Jan 2010, 11:53:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', 'W')hy don't you declare Bush-2 and Cheney war criminals and use Interpol (which now has diplomatic immunity in the USA) to rendition them to international court?

:o

I wish...it'll never happen though. International law is highly politicized, the most powerful in this world decide who gets tried in The Hague.
Bas
 
Top

Re: Iraq war was illegal, Dutch panel rules

Unread postby pablonite » Wed 13 Jan 2010, 13:54:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', 'W')hy don't you declare Bush-2 and Cheney war criminals and use Interpol (which now has diplomatic immunity in the USA) to rendition them to international court?

Heh. That's when the criminals pull out their sovereignty cards and it all gets jammed up in the supreme court until they rule it was all legal, and around and round we go...

They might do some time in their 80's just for a joke but seriously, when the criminals are running the criminal justice system...
User avatar
pablonite
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 723
Joined: Sun 28 Sep 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Iraq war was illegal, Dutch panel rules

Unread postby some_math_guy » Wed 13 Jan 2010, 14:30:10

I am frankly surprised that no high-ranking US government official was outright assassinated during the Bush administration's reign. I mean, if these terrorist groups are capable of coordinating 9/11 and other high-profile terrorist incidents around the world, how hard would it really be to get somebody to simply off Chaney, Rumsfeld, or even Bush himself? Forget blowing up trains and killing innocent people, I don't understand why 'terrorists' don't simply send the clear message that purveyers of oppressive foreign policy do so at the risk of their own lives. I expect that might bring 'change we can believe in' to the USA in short order.

Disclaimer: I do not support expression of political dissent through violent means.
Last edited by some_math_guy on Wed 13 Jan 2010, 15:50:41, edited 1 time in total.
some_math_guy
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed 01 Feb 2006, 04:00:00

Re: Iraq war was illegal, Dutch panel rules

Unread postby rangerone314 » Wed 13 Jan 2010, 14:33:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('some_math_guy', 'I') am frankly surprised that no high-ranking US government official was outright assassinated during the Bush administration's reign. I mean, if these terrorist groups are capable of coordinating 9/11 and other high-profile terrorist incidents around the world, how hard would it really be to get somebody to simply off Chaney, Rumsfeld, or even Bush himself? Forget blowing up trains and killing innocent people, I don't understand why 'terrorists' don't simply send the clear message that purveyers of oppressive foreign policy do so at the risk of their own lifes. I expect that might bring 'change we can believe in' to the USA in short order.

Disclaimer: I do not support expression of political dissent through violent means.

Hypothetically, if Cheney, Rumsfeld and Bush were actually behind 9/11 like some people think, then why would they try to "off" themselves?
An ideology is by definition not a search for TRUTH-but a search for PROOF that its point of view is right

Equals barter and negotiate-people with power just take

You cant defend freedom by eliminating it-unknown

Our elected reps should wear sponsor patches on their suits so we know who they represent-like Nascar-Roy
User avatar
rangerone314
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4105
Joined: Wed 03 Dec 2008, 04:00:00
Location: Maryland
Top

Re: Iraq war was illegal, Dutch panel rules

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Wed 13 Jan 2010, 19:48:14

Assassination attempts on top US officials would result in massive reprisals.

Think about what Johnson would have done to Vietnam if Kennedy had been killed by a Vietcong assassin.

Now replace good-natured, liberal-at-heart Johnson with Darth Cheney and replace jungle Vietnam with desert Iraq.

If you thought the American people were supportive of the invasion in 2003, just imagine what they would have looked like had Bush, the hero president who brought America back after 9/11, had been killed in, October of 2002.

The November elections would have given President Cheney a supermajority and a mandate to combat terrorists wherever they lived.

Baghdad would be a radioactive parking lot. 8O
"www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
Tyler_JC
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5438
Joined: Sat 25 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Iraq war was illegal, Dutch panel rules

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 13 Jan 2010, 19:57:23

Hi Bas:

Now that a Dutch court has ruled that the Iraq War was illegal, are the Dutch going to prosecute the Dutch politicians who sent the Dutch Army to the Iraq War?

Image
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26765
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: Iraq war was illegal, Dutch panel rules

Unread postby timmac » Wed 13 Jan 2010, 21:14:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'H')i Bas:

Now that a Dutch court has ruled that the Iraq War was illegal, are the Dutch going to prosecute the Dutch politicians who sent the Dutch Army to the Iraq War?



And the Answer to that is NO, they only want to blame it on America, thats what this is all about..
User avatar
timmac
Permanently Banned
 
Posts: 1901
Joined: Thu 27 Mar 2008, 03:00:00
Location: Las Vegas
Top

Re: Iraq war was illegal, Dutch panel rules

Unread postby mattduke » Wed 13 Jan 2010, 21:50:23

A clear illustration that law is violence. With no credible threat of violence, this "law" has no force.
User avatar
mattduke
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3591
Joined: Fri 28 Oct 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Iraq war was illegal, Dutch panel rules

Unread postby Geodesic » Wed 13 Jan 2010, 22:31:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('timmac', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'H')i Bas:

Now that a Dutch court has ruled that the Iraq War was illegal, are the Dutch going to prosecute the Dutch politicians who sent the Dutch Army to the Iraq War?



And the Answer to that is NO, they only want to blame it on America, thats what this is all about..


Well, duhhh. Who else would you blame it on? A TRILLION dollar war for profit. A capitalist wet dream come true. What industry does the US have left except the death & destruction industry?
User avatar
Geodesic
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat 15 Nov 2008, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Iraq war was illegal, Dutch panel rules

Unread postby Revi » Wed 13 Jan 2010, 23:12:48

I think most of that oil went to other countries.

We are just the repo-men.

Iraq was the strategic reserve, and we cracked that piggy bank open for somebody.
Deep in the mud and slime of things, even there, something sings.
User avatar
Revi
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7417
Joined: Mon 25 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Maine

Re: Iraq war was illegal, Dutch panel rules

Unread postby timmac » Thu 14 Jan 2010, 00:53:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Geodesic', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('timmac', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'H')i Bas:

Now that a Dutch court has ruled that the Iraq War was illegal, are the Dutch going to prosecute the Dutch politicians who sent the Dutch Army to the Iraq War?



And the Answer to that is NO, they only want to blame it on America, thats what this is all about..


Well, duhhh. Who else would you blame it on? A TRILLION dollar war for profit. A capitalist wet dream come true. What industry does the US have left except the death & destruction industry?



Well let me put it this way, if 3 people went to rob a bank and only one shot the teller dead who gets charged for murder,, [All Three], If the Dutch court ruled it illegal than they have at least some of the guilty party there.. Right..
http://s8int.com/
http://youtu.be/omm8Ey8vwbg
User avatar
timmac
Permanently Banned
 
Posts: 1901
Joined: Thu 27 Mar 2008, 03:00:00
Location: Las Vegas
Top

Re: Iraq war was illegal, Dutch panel rules

Unread postby Bas » Thu 14 Jan 2010, 06:47:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'H')i Bas:

Now that a Dutch court has ruled that the Iraq War was illegal, are the Dutch going to prosecute the Dutch politicians who sent the Dutch Army to the Iraq War?



The Dutch army didn't participate in the Iraq war, but our government lent it's political support for it, and now a government commission charged with investigating that support has ruled the invasion and thus the support for it was illigal. The current government might fall over this.
Bas
 
Top

Re: Iraq war was illegal, Dutch panel rules

Unread postby Gerben » Thu 14 Jan 2010, 06:50:05

They claim "Ich habe es nicht gewüsst" (I didn't know). They said they believed what they were told, that Irak had WMD, even if there was no evidence that they actually did.
User avatar
Gerben
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 629
Joined: Wed 07 Mar 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Holland, Belgica Foederata (Republic of the Seven United Netherlands)

Re: Iraq war was illegal, Dutch panel rules

Unread postby Whitefang » Thu 14 Jan 2010, 10:18:19

mmmmmmm, happen to be residing in the land of the smoke and peace.......
Same data same system, one party government in allience with yours.
Politicians, the actors get paid well to sell policy and wars.
Funny how people who want to come out against the world order die mysteriously in the the Hague int.jail.......

Some people waking up way to late, war is upon everybody now.
Better of hunting for cheap rice and warm clothing.

Food for dummies.....

http://www.marketskeptics.com/2009/12/2 ... mmies.html :-D
User avatar
Whitefang
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 896
Joined: Fri 12 May 2006, 03:00:00

PreviousNext

Return to Open Topic Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron