[Hawkcreek]

--

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hawkcreek', 'W')e have almost accomplished all of what we wanted in Iraq.

1. We have scrambled their government and taken away their ability to resist in an organized way.
2. We have their own, so-called government, willing to cede us the rights to most of their oil for the next 30 years (which could end up being about 25 percent of all available oil left in the world).
3. We have 5 permanent bases set up to allow us to project a large amount of force to protect our rights to that oil.

We have done this at a fairly low cost in American lives, and are set up much better to survive the turbulent years to come.

It looks like a win so far. Sure, they are a little upset that we are killing them and stealing their stuff, but they will get over it - or not.

So what is everbody upset about?

[MojoMojoMojo]

I saw on a 60 Minutes story that half the cost of modern war is for fuel.
That would mean $300 billion for fuel in Iraq.

I was trying to find figures on the web.
"Between March 2003 and October 2007 the US military in Iraq purchased more than 4 billion gallons of fuel from the Defense Energy Support Center, the agency responsible for procuring and supplying petroleum products to the Department of Defense."

But Ive heard Halliburton supplies fuel as well.

Anyone here know, is it closer to 4 billion or 100 billion gallons ?
How much in Afghanistan?

[Poordogabone]

Here is an article that may have some clues, although it's for the total of US military oil consumption.
cheers.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')ource: Reuters
U.S. military fuel consumption dwarfs energy demand in many countries around the world, adding up to nearly double the fuel use in Ireland and 20 times more than that of Iceland, according to the U.S. Department of Energy.
From the start of the Iraq war in 2003 up till 2007, U.S. military fuel consumption has slipped by about 10 percent, but costs more than doubled due surging oil prices.

[Cid_Yama]

When you think of China, inexpensive and inferior goods might come to mind.

But that's hardly the case with the Chinese body armor found on Iraqi insurgents.

It is superior to anything available to U.S. troops and resists penetration from M16s, M4s, M80s, M60s and M240 machine guns. In fact, say U.S. military sources, the only thing it won't defeat is a direct shot from a .50 caliber, according to a report in Joseph Farah's G2 Bulletin.

The Chinese-supplied body armor also will resist multiple hits – something the U.S. military-grade protective vests won't do.

China long has provided at least some military support to al-Qaida and the Taliban, as well as Shiite militia forces.

link

[Cashmere]

Are they "giving their support"?

Or are they being good capitalists and selling their crap to whoever has money?

[seldom_seen]

The war between China and the US in the middle east is well underway. It is, IMO one of the least reported stories in the media besides issues like PO.

Iran is China's bulldog, and the shia of southern Iraq are Iran's bulldog. Follow the chain back and the US and China are at war for influence over what remains of ME oil, and as Heinberg said "The fate of industrial civilization."

There's just two different approaches at play. The US comes in all heavy handed and bombs everything, shoots the place up, and then sets up camp in the middle of Baghdad.

Meanwhile the Chinese sit at home and read their Sun Tzu, "All warfare is deception." They send us poisonous and defective products. They wage a relentless war against our government and private computer networks and stand quietly in the shadows behind the podium as Ahmadinejad stirs up the pot.

When able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near. Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him

They may even have taken down our electrical grid a few times:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')hina’s Cyber-Militia

Chinese hackers pose a clear and present danger to U.S. government and private-sector computer networks and may be responsible for two major U.S. power blackouts.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/njmagazi ... 1_6948.php

[Munqi]

Is this source reliable?



If it is then we are in deep shit... well, deeper shit.



(Why cant i say sh*t? )

[Kingcoal]

Maybe the US should buy this Chinese body armor then.

[Dreamtwister]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', 'M')aybe the US should buy this Chinese body armor then.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Munqi', '
')Is this source reliable?

[stu]

Lets look at the home page of G2 Bulletin.

http://g2.wnd.com/

Robert Mugabe linked to Al Qaida.

An orgy has plunged MI5 into chaos.

And you actually have to pay to read this crap!!!

Farah at Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Farah

[Cashmere]

LinkyLink

Hmm, this is going to be interesting.
They seem to be saying, "thanks for the liberty, we'll take it from here."
And the U.S. seems to be saying, "you don't have enough liberty yet."
And they seem to be saying, "well let's set a date by which we'll be sure to have enough liberty."

And the U.S. seems to be saying, "sorry, we can't set that date until conditions on the ground are right."
And by "conditions on the ground", of course, the U.S. means "our ability to ensure that your oil is extracted and sold."
So this is what we call a Mexican standoff. Except in Mexico they are about to go into oil importation mode, so maybe that doesn't apply.
So it's an impasse. Thanks to the french for giving us that word.

And I find this fascinating, because the moment Iraq says, "you leave now" and the U.S. responds with, "no", then there is no way to view the U.S. military in Iraq other than as an occupying conqueror.
Not that there's any other way to view it now - but at that point, you won't be able to view it another way and still be considered to be sapient.

[Kingcoal]

This is McCain's trump card. Remaining in Iraq indefinitely, that is. Iraq is a pawn in the coming election. Republicans need to argue that McCain is the best candidate because he can manage a war better or so they say. If, by the election, we are leaving Iraq, then where's the war? It reminds me of the novel 1984 and the need for constant warfare - it keeps the population scared and supporting draconian governments.

[heroineworshipper]

Damn. Need another regime change.

[vetusfirma]

Can you people get off your political issues and think about exactly what is happening. If we lose, in any sense, you and all those around you will suffer. This is not about the next election. If you can't get beyond that you will continue to force attention on the wrong areas. If you want war with Iran, then you should side with the twits in Iraq, who are probably in league with their shiite masters in Iran and the Grand Ayatollah.

Even the French are worried about Iran now.

And by the way, what god said we need anybodies permission to 'stay'. All we need the for it to be in the best interest of the American People.

[Kingcoal]

Lose what? We won the war after a day or so. I don't know about you, vestusfirma, but I'm on the side of the USA. We fought the war to destroy the threat of WMD in Iraq. Well, we didn't find any, so there, mission accomplished! The Middle East has always been a screwed up place. Before Europeans got there, there really weren't anything that we would call countries, just a bunch of loosely connected tribes. They still behave like a bunch of waring tribes. That's not our fault, you can lead a horse to water...

[heroineworshipper]

Somewhere between Iraq regime change 3.0, Iran regime change & China regime change, there needs to be a peakoil.com regime change.

[catbox]

I say givem all WalMart gift cards and call it good.

cb