$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'T')hat doesn't drive Mom and the Kids to the Mall.

[Maddog78]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')addog was right, it wouldn't matter how much I showed, you would dismiss it.

[copious.abundance]

The one I pass by everyday is the one in Everett.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '[')What I am looking for is, if you used a liquid propane tank like the ones they use on Forklifts on your car and filled it half full of gasoline while it was at atmospheric pressure how much CH4 or C3H8 could you pump in under pressure? I am sure it is less than you could add if you didn't put the gasoline in first, but I am also aware that back in the 1900-1925 era gasoline often had Propane in its formula straight from the refinery.

I was thinking that if you didn't want to go with straight Natural Gas or Propane you could dissolve it on your gasoline and still get a benefit from it as a fuel extender.

[MattS]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '
')A limited class of specialized short-haul mostly urban vehicles may be prototyped for natural gas. But so what? Who cares? That doesn't drive Mom and the Kids to the Mall. Or deliver your Amazon toys.

[MattS]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', '
')BTW, yes I do have a CNG filling station along my commute

[copious.abundance]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattS', 'S')o we all sit and wait...figuring that PO will do the job for us, ratcheting up the price high enough that the alternatives aren't just reasonable, a point which has already arrived, all pstarr whining to the contrary, but make complete economic sense.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'T')his is the United States, not some third-world piker country that otherwise depends on jittney's, pedi-cabs, and the occasional natural-gas model T clunkers, this is the the world's capital of long-distance driving and hauling.

[MattS]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', '
')Ah yes, but in pstarr's world, the inconvenience of filling up your tank every 150 miles instead of every 300 miles would be so great, Americans would rather pay $10/gallon for their gasoline or even let their civilization come to a screeching halt rather than resort to such unbearable inconveniences.

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattS', 'I')t appears that quite a large part of the doomer schema involves the impossibility of change in human behavior

[Maddog78]

You really are a piece of work.
I can just imagine how my career would have gone if I thought like you.


"Hey Maddog, what do you think about bending the pipe when we're drilling, go along the production zone horizontally and later pump in some fluid under high pressure to crack open the formation to produce more?"

What are you crazy? We should never try anything new! Don't you understand the consequences?
What about the EROEI? We could all be doomed! I'm just going to stay in my house.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TonyPrep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattS', 'I')t appears that quite a large part of the doomer schema involves the impossibility of change in human behavior

[copious.abundance]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'I')s that the best you can do? A plaintive little cry for help in the wilderness?

We have endured the greatest run-up in the petroleum prices, perhaps ever, and the slowest response in new petroleum production--perhaps ever. (could be peak? I'll let you cornies debate the date.) This has been THE golden opportunity for all petroleum alternatives transport systems, yet the natural-gas vehicle industry has failed to shine. The market has not responded with any significant uptick in installation, conversions, new technologies, or market share.

Either the free market is bust, or the consumer does not want the gadgets, or natural gas vehicles are not competitive in the US and never will be. Which one is it?

[copious.abundance]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '.') . . the fisheries, topsoil, aquifers, etc. that support the six billions are also depleting at awful rates . . .

[copious.abundance]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'Y')es. We agree for once. We are transitioning to a different state, perhaps one more similar to Pakistan.

[copious.abundance]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'O')ily, you have no idea really. You are quite clueless.

How many solar panels do you have on your roof? How many alternative systems have you ever developed? Who is stuck in yesterday's make believe? It's idiots like you, followers, belongers all, that explain our predicament.

You are so late to the game

[Gerben]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Maddog78', 'W')hat I am looking for is, if you used a liquid propane tank like the ones they use on Forklifts on your car and filled it half full of gasoline while it was at atmospheric pressure how much CH4 or C3H8 could you pump in under pressure?

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', 'T')ony, I'm afraid it is you who doesn't get it.

Let's say you and pstarr are right, and we have reached and passed the peak of oil production. Oil will get increasingly expensive over time. Nobody wants to pay a lot of money for oil, and many can't even afford to. There's a good reason why you've got nations like Pakistan using a lot of NG for their transportation rather than oil: Oil is too expensive for most people there to afford. So, they've been switching to natural gas, which they have large reserves of their own and is considerably cheaper.

Now, let's say the same thing starts to happen to Americans. Let's say you're right and, being past peak, oil will start to get more expensive. Even many Americans will not want to pay that much for it, and/or they can't afford to pay that much for it. What to do? Give up and die? Hardly. They will "transition to a different state" - one dominated by natural gas (and other alternatives). You can't tell me people will go about BAU while gasoline rises to $5, 7$ and then $10 a gallon. No fool would. Of course they'll do something.

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', 'i')t is possible for 56% of the cars

Here you go Tony.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', 'I') can't believe I missed this thread until now.

And now that I've seen it, it has to be among the stupidest threads posted here in a while.

Perhaps all these natural gas discoveries are getting on pstarr's nerves and, true to his nature, he needs to go into denial about it and tell us how it will "never pan out."

Perhaps pstarr needs to be reminded that 15% of vehicles in Argentina run on natural gas. Then there's this little factoid which I posted in the now-merged Pakistan thread:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', 'A')ccording to this there are 2 million vehicles (all of the 4-wheeled variety, I presume) in Pakistan which run on natural gas, as of December 2008.

According to this (PDF), there are about 8 million total vehicles on the road in Pakistan, as of 2008. 44% of those are 4-wheeled vehicles (motorcycles and scooters being really popular there). So we have about 3.52 million 4-wheeled vehicles on the road in Pakistan.

2 million is about 56% of 3.52 million. Even if we include all those scooters, 25% of all vehicles on the road in Pakistan run on natural gas.

Gosh golly - I thought there was no substitute for oil!