Why do we have to fight expensive wars to keep gas cheap? Why aren't the expenses of those wars automatically paid for by gas taxes?
Oil, coal, gas, and nuclear--non-renewable and very mature industries--are huge recipients of government support of all sorts. Why shouldn't a start up that promises much lower total future costs to society and government (we are unlikely to fight wars over wind) be supported, when these hoary, hugely polluting and expensive resources get much greater support and have for decades?
PeakOil is You
Cap N Tax
Re: Cap N Tax
by dohboi » Wed 01 Jul 2009, 12:48:22
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Re: Cap N Tax
by odegaard » Wed 01 Jul 2009, 12:57:41
In all fairness every new technology comes into existence by being subsidized by the previous.
For example:
The first steam engines were produced using economic profit from horse power.
However the next generation of steam engines were paid for using economic profit from the previous generation of steam engines.
and the cycle continues
The same thing happened later on with gasoline engines.
The only way to transition to a new technology is by cutting off the subsidies.
If you have to keep on financially relying on the previous that does NOT count as a transition.
This is what "environmentalists" do NOT understand.
For example:
The first steam engines were produced using economic profit from horse power.
However the next generation of steam engines were paid for using economic profit from the previous generation of steam engines.
and the cycle continues
The same thing happened later on with gasoline engines.
The only way to transition to a new technology is by cutting off the subsidies.
If you have to keep on financially relying on the previous that does NOT count as a transition.
This is what "environmentalists" do NOT understand.
"They're not too big to fail, they're too big to bail out!" Peter Schiff
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Re: Cap N Tax
by pablonite » Wed 01 Jul 2009, 16:29:12
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'D')oes the price per KW hour for oil include the taxes necessary for a huge military so we can secure stable oil supplies and fight wars in the Middle East? Or the economic damage to incidents like 9-11 that are directly related to our oil dependence (both our presence in ME which irritates the Arabs, our backing of unpopular regimes, and funding of terrorism via money funneled from Saudi Arabia)
War is the rich mans terrorism and terrorism is the poor mans war. Nothing makes more money for the rich man than war except banking. Almost all terrorism today is state sponsored and almost every war has been financed on both sides by the same people. Your in fantasy land if you actually believe the governments "official" conspiracy theory about 9-11. Look at a clip of building 7 go down and put on your critical thinking cap. We don't know what really happened except that the government has been caught in a huge lie.$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'H')ere's an idea: we spend about 50% of the world's military spending. Why not reduce that to say 10% of the world's military spending...
Here is a joke for you. A new president goes to his first meeting with some high level corporate and banker types, the lights go out and a film of the Kennedy assasination is shown from an angle never seen before - like a grassy knoll - then the lights go on. The president is asked "Are there any questions?" and the president answers "What's the agenda?"
The Federal Reserve Act of 1913, Executive Order 11110, Lincoln's Greenback Dollar...don't take my word for it, do some of your own research because you have no idea why politicians would have a problem implementing your fine suggestion even if they wanted to. It just ain't how things work right now.
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Re: Cap N Tax
by Jotapay » Wed 01 Jul 2009, 17:11:40
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pablonite', 'T')he Federal Reserve Act of 1913, Executive Order 11110, Lincoln's Greenback Dollar...don't take my word for it, do some of your own research because you have no idea why politicians would have a problem implementing your fine suggestion even if they wanted to. It just ain't how things work right now.
Most Americans won't believe you, even though you listed facts and historical events for them to check. Their mind will actually deny the existence of historical events, because their mind will not allow them to believe that our country could be so screwed. Their mind will literally shut down and refuse to listen to your facts and historical events. That is the mind that the majority of Americans have.
I remember when I woke up. I couldn't believe that I used to be a sheeple once, denying that things like this could ever exist and have happened.
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Re: Cap N Tax
by pedalling_faster » Wed 01 Jul 2009, 17:24:24
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dohboi', 'W')ow, what a bunch of delusional blather!
So you think apparently think that every established scientific body in the world that has weighed in on this issue and concluded that anthropogenic global warming is real and dangerous is wrong and you and the rightwing nut jobs you get your marching orders from are right?
The problem with cap and trade is that it should be cap and tax, or better, cap and tax and ration and curtail and power down.
But you will continue to live in your delusion, scoff at reality, and impede even these very sorry efforts toward reducing our enormous contribution to the unfolding global catastrophe.
Congratulations on that.
So you think apparently think that every established scientific body in the world that has weighed in on this issue and concluded that anthropogenic global warming is real and dangerous is wrong and you and the rightwing nut jobs you get your marching orders from are right?
The problem with cap and trade is that it should be cap and tax, or better, cap and tax and ration and curtail and power down.
But you will continue to live in your delusion, scoff at reality, and impede even these very sorry efforts toward reducing our enormous contribution to the unfolding global catastrophe.
Congratulations on that.
actually, i think you're both right.
cap & trade is a huge tax. levied upon an economy that is in a dead, lifeless state that few Americans have ever witnessed. not a smart move.
what will happen with cap & trade is that we will do all the work of carbon suppression, but we won't get the benefits. we cannot compete with a million square mile area in Eastern Russia where methane is coming bubbling out of the permafrost as it becomes melted permafrost, mostly dead plant matter that is about to go through a much more rapid compost cycle. which is itself a heavy CO2 emitter.
our climate has a quality similar to momentum or inertia, and a hell of a lot of it. wheels already set in motion will take many decades to slow down, even if we all became minimal consuming non-procreating monks & nuns.
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