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Re: Cap N Tax

Unread postby Arthur75 » Sun 28 Jun 2009, 16:44:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pablonite', '
')They can't mention "peak oil" too much in the mainstream news becasue it's hard to justify the current wars for that very resource as the only solution. By calling it "climate change" they can use your "climate change" taxes to fund the wars without the slightest bit of suspicion and kill 2 birds calling it "The War on Terror" and removing all of your rights in case you figure it all out.

This is what think tanks like "The Project for a New American Century" think about all day every day and why by the good grace of God - they got their "New pearl Harbour" right on schedule!

Arthur, if the big things happening in this world seem "strange" to you, take a closer look at who owns your "communication" channel.


Plabonite, althoug the above probably has some truth in it, about :

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t's a global problem just like every other "problem" you are inundated with daily thanks to the mainstream media whose ownership has been reduced to a small mitful of elite owners who DO have an agenda.


There is no agenda besides :

- getting reelected
- getting where this guy is
- saying things that have some reverberations
- knowing the fashion about words and concepts
- fucking up that guy that fucked me up
- wondering why this girl is picking on me while her bf is a friend (not really)
- being realistic about what can be swallowed
- being cool and to the point
- knowing who matters
- knowing what's happening
- having the group share a secret
- etc

In other words, there is no agenda, and reason shouldn't surrender in front of conspiracies, theoretical or not, just for the lazy bit of it !

why ? that would be quite boring
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Re: Cap N Tax

Unread postby jasonraymondson » Sun 28 Jun 2009, 17:34:45

It blows my fucking mind the stupidity on this site. No such thing as global warming? You are fucking retarded. You keep sucking that corporate pollution cock.

How can people be so fucking stupid as to "BELIEVE" that pollutants coming from automobiles does not have an adverse effect on the environment?

Just fucking kill yourselves.. I am so fucking tired dealing with stupid people.

( COC VIOLATION -- 3.1.9 ) --^--

Site is full of republican conservative christian morons that like to kill cats, pollute the environment, and suck karl rove cock.
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Re: Cap N Tax

Unread postby pablonite » Sun 28 Jun 2009, 18:04:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Arthur75', 'I')n other words, there is no agenda

Your points ring true for many politicians but I am talking about their owners.
Do you know who owns Reuters AND Associated Press? It is just one family of about 13 or so that are pulling politicians strings all over the world, most are known as "international banking dynasties" for the power to create money is the all encompassing power of the world we live in. Check it out and you will see what I mean when I am talking about power, these people have no need for the very distractions they created to provide an illusion of choice for you, like elections. They are rarely quoted but when they are you can see quite clearly how they are running the world for what they say soon becomes a reality, very unlike politicians.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', 'N')o such thing as global warming?

Uh, that would be man-made global warming - and cooling for that matter. I believe that big fiery ball in the sky would be responsible for that considering it was happening long before apes like yourself started replacing critical thought for flickering cathode ray tubes. Looks like that corporate pollution you speak of has gone to your head my friend!
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Re: Cap N Tax

Unread postby AlexdeLarge » Sun 28 Jun 2009, 21:34:46

He Thinks You're Stupid
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2009/06/023883.php

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')axman-Markey would be a very stupid bill even if it were true that 1) the earth is getting warmer, 2) human activity is mostly responsible for climate changes, and 3) a warmer earth would be a bad thing. Given that all three of these premises are false--we cannot, in fact, control the weather--Waxman-Markey is a suicidal monument to human folly.



Those of you who think GW is proven science are fools. To think that with less than a century of climate data you can predict the climate of the future represents the height of hubris! The buffoons in congress don't believe it either..........but they do know this

"Never Give a Sucker an Even Break"
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Obamoa, Botox Pelosi and the other keystone cops will use this shoddy science to raise your taxes and diminish your rights by taking advantage of your "big" hearts to "supposedly" save the polar bear.


Ask yourself....why was this bill, which was not even read by congress, passed on Friday night before a holiday ?? It is just another scam. Just like the Tarp bills. It will not hold up to scrutiny of the light of day. There are no adults in the room. Just a blind quest for power.

You are all just frogs being slowly boiled in a pot and your to damn dumb to know it.

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Re: Cap N Tax

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 29 Jun 2009, 01:33:32

Yikes.. my electricity bill is ALREADY set to hike up 30%, so I guess with cap n' trade that's another 30 odd percent? 8O

Question for you guys watching this closely.. surely this thing won't make it through the Senate?
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Re: Cap N Tax

Unread postby odegaard » Mon 29 Jun 2009, 04:09:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', 'I')t blows my fucking mind the stupidity on this site.
....
How can people be so fucking stupid
...
Just fucking kill yourselves.

You have a post count of over 3300!
You believe this place to be so "fucking stupid" but you keep on coming back for more like a hungry dog.
:lol:
"They're not too big to fail, they're too big to bail out!" Peter Schiff
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Re: Cap N Tax

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 29 Jun 2009, 06:47:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'Y')ikes.. my electricity bill is ALREADY set to hike up 30%, so I guess with cap n' trade that's another 30 odd percent? 8O

Question for you guys watching this closely.. surely this thing won't make it through the Senate?


It won't make it through the Senate today, probably not before the August recess either. If I were planning the political strategy to get it passed I would wait for some event. It could be oil spikes back up over $100.00 a barrel, a major hurricane strikes the East Coast of the USA, something that can make it sound like a good idea to either tax the evil energy companies OR a weather related disaster like Katrina that makes cap and trade seem mandatory to the sheeple.

Obama swears he will sign it ASAP after the Senate passes it.

The good news is there is a saying, "The Senate is where legislation goes to die" and it has some justification, something like 60% of bills passed by the house never make it through the Senate and many more are significantly rewritten. Let us all hope this totalitarian cap and trade option is one of the ones that dies. There are very good carbon tax alternatives that do not require all the massive increases in bureaucracy and federal regulation that this requires. Hell an import tariff on fossil fuels would take care of a lot of the oil and natural gas imports as they would be driven higher in price. For Coal simply stop issuing permits for mines on federal lands. Neither of those option requires more than a 1 page bill to be passed and no new Federal layers of control are required.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Alfred Tennyson', 'W')e are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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Re: Cap N Tax

Unread postby AlexdeLarge » Mon 29 Jun 2009, 11:14:01

Carbon Credits: A Scam
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/1171-Carbon-Credits-A-Scam.html

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')et's assume for the sake of argument that the "global warming" folks are right. I am not sold, but for the purpose of this discussion I'll grant the hypothesis that man is causing the planet to get warmer as a consequence of his emission of CO2 (sequestered millions of years ago into the earth's crust and elsewhere) into the atmosphere.

Here's the problem: North America has about 330 million people in it, most of them in The United States. That's a lot of people.

But Asia has 4 billion people living in it, or more than 10 times as many. And unfortunately most of them are living at a vastly inferior standard of living compared to ours. Africa has about 970 million people (three times North America), and again, nearly all are living vastly below our standard of living.

We're 1/15th of the population in question and nearly all of the rest of the people involved are going to dramatically increase their per-capita CO2 output whether we like it or not.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he math is simple: Within a few years China will emit more CO2 than we will. A few years after that both Africa and India will surpass the Unites States. None of these regions will agree to stop emitting CO2 because to do so is to agree to keep their people perpetually poor and agrarian while we enjoy the fruits of a westernized, industrialized economy.

That's not going to happen and yet without it happening no amount of bleating about "climate change" or laws passed to curtail our CO2 output will do a thing for the climate of the planet. It will not make any material difference to the outcome; indeed, oil companies have said that they will simply move refining and other operations to nations without such pacts (like India and China!) to avoid the tax, and pass through any impact in the US directly to consumers.

The amount of CO2 emitted will not go down, but your costs will go up, making the only net effect economic: you will be poorer and whatever man-made effect exists on the climate will continue to exist.
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Re: Cap N Tax

Unread postby Jotapay » Mon 29 Jun 2009, 13:21:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dohboi', 'A')gain, for lurkers: AGW is based on very basic, incontrovertable facts--

1. CO2 is a greenhouse gas (established beyond question over 100 years ago)
2. We have dumped hundreds of billions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere by burning ff
3. CO2 atmospheric concentrations have risen over the last 150 years
4. Global temps have increased over the last hundred years

No deniers can question the basic truth of any of these, and only a confirmed denialist would fail to connect these very clear dots.


There is a lot more to it than that, Dohboi. I received a Geology degree from the 5th best academic Geology program and the best funded program in the USA. My play toys in the department were scanning electron microscopes and isotopic spectrum analyzers. I was an intern (he called me "his slave", LOL) and received precious personal tutelage from one of the most famous Geology professors in the USA, Robert Folk. He created some of the classification systems used by all geologists in the world today, like the Folk sedimentary rock classification system. Ok, enough academic chest thumping but I wanted to establish some authority. There is a lot of misinformation and conjecture in this thread.

Your causality that you established above is not iron clad. The earth has been warming for 11,000 years, not just the past 150. The earth has been transitioning from a cold house to a hot house environment for 11,000 years. The earth's poles have been without ice in previous hot house environments.

What I am concerned about is the rate of change humans are effecting on the world's environment. This is not limited to CO2. The problem is much larger than that. Species exist within environmental niches. We are changing the world's environment so fast, thus changing species' niches more quickly than they can adapt, that massive extinction, possibly the greatest extinction event ever, is now underway. Resource depletion (forests, minerals, fossil fuels, fish stocks, fresh water, productive soil) is increasing at a parabolic rate, which is completely unsustainable. We are rapidly making our world unlivable for most of its inhabitants. Creating more CO2 is just one very small slice of the environmental pie.

As far as science goes, there are tens of thousands of scientists who have signed onto proclamations saying that they do not agree that global warming can be directly attributed to human activity. There are studies which have been performed on ocean warming which claim to absolutely establish global warming and CO2 levels ties to human activity. There are many isotopic studies on ice and carbonate layers which show parabolic spikes in greenhouse gas levels starting 500 years ago, coinciding with the dawn of industrialism in England. The question is, how much is this going to really change our environment in the next 100-200-500 years? No one really knows the answer to that question.

I personally think that human activity is destroying this planet and we may be too far along the slippery slope to stop, unless we kill 85% of the world's population with an engineered plague or something. Human activity is changing not just the atmosphere, but ground water, oceans, soil, and especially animal and plant life. CO2 is one small facet of the problem.

As far as Cap and Trade goes, in my opinion it's just another tax by the bankers (or their lackeys, the government). I have heard, but I don't know if it's true, that home inspections and fines will created by this bill. I don't know if this is true, I'd like to see confirmation somewhere. So to me, it's just another excuse for more governmental control over our lives. I think there is a better solution to this problem than this tax and control bill.
Last edited by Jotapay on Mon 29 Jun 2009, 13:30:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cap N Tax

Unread postby jasonraymondson » Mon 29 Jun 2009, 13:29:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('odegaard', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', 'I')t blows my fucking mind the stupidity on this site.
....
How can people be so fucking stupid
...
Just fucking kill yourselves.

You have a post count of over 3300!
You believe this place to be so "fucking stupid" but you keep on coming back for more like a hungry dog.
:lol:



Have I ever said I was smart (genius yes, smart... NEVER). I want to hang out at a place where people have brains so they rub off, this fucking place is making me dumber by the minute and I blame all of you.
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Re: Cap N Tax

Unread postby vision-master » Mon 29 Jun 2009, 14:12:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('odegaard', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', 'I')t blows my fucking mind the stupidity on this site.
....
How can people be so fucking stupid
...
Just fucking kill yourselves.

You have a post count of over 3300!
You believe this place to be so "fucking stupid" but you keep on coming back for more like a hungry dog.
:lol:



Have I ever said I was smart (genius yes, smart... NEVER). I want to hang out at a place where people have brains so they rub off, this fucking place is making me dumber by the minute and I blame all of you.


You hear but you don't listen. :badgrin:
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Re: Cap N Tax

Unread postby jasonraymondson » Mon 29 Jun 2009, 14:27:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('odegaard', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', 'I')t blows my fucking mind the stupidity on this site.
....
How can people be so fucking stupid
...
Just fucking kill yourselves.

You have a post count of over 3300!
You believe this place to be so "fucking stupid" but you keep on coming back for more like a hungry dog.
:lol:



Have I ever said I was smart (genius yes, smart... NEVER). I want to hang out at a place where people have brains so they rub off, this fucking place is making me dumber by the minute and I blame all of you.


You hear but you don't listen. :badgrin:



I understand quite fine. This place is filled with a bunch of people who think they have answers. It's a bloody riot listening to you all champion your causes when you don't even know what your talking about. Actually most of the people that were worth listening to, are gone. For the most part, the only people left are the pretenders and the bullshitters... like me and worse.

It is bloody amazing the ego's on this site. A bunch of scared kids who don't know their asses from a hole in the ground debating the intricacies of how the world works... lol. Getting upset because some random person they have never met doesn't take their side of the argument serious.

I not saying I am better than any of you, I am probably worse then most. But least I don't go around claiming to be an expert, only a fool who likes a good laugh while the world burns down around him.

Hell, I have caught half of you plagiarizing other peoples work and trying to pass it off as your own shit, and no, I am not going to provide examples. I have more important things to do. Like my laundry.
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Re: Cap N Tax

Unread postby Jotapay » Mon 29 Jun 2009, 14:34:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', 'I') have more important things to do. Like my laundry.


I'm not going to argue with your points, because there is some truth there, but why do you post such obviously worthless crap and create more discord? You exacerbate the problems about which you so vitriolically spew verbal attacks. You are your own worst enemy in this problem, when you take a step back and look at it objectively. Have you thought about how much time and energy you waste with your accusatory and pointless posts? If you were to analyze the net effect of your posts, is it positive or negative?
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Re: Cap N Tax

Unread postby Roy » Mon 29 Jun 2009, 14:38:41

First of all, it is damaging to one's credibility, on this site at least, to cite anything from the Club for Growth.

Second, it's pretty obvious that humans are having a deleterious effect on Earth's ecosystems, or biosphere, if you will, and that the burning of fossil fuels is a significant component.

Third, the bottom line, like Arthur75 succinctly pointed out, is that we should be talking about reducing our use of fossil fuels.

Arguing about the causes of climate change at this point is like two groups of passengers on the Titanic arguing about what was causing the flooding on the ship. Regardless if was the iceberg or faulty construction, the ship was still heading to the bottom.

There we are. You all keep arguing, I'll get to the lifeboat.

Our leaders have no interest in facing the reality that exponential growth cannot continue forever and there are a lot of people who likewise believe the same.

Then there are those who will deny anything the 'other side' says, because of their political ideology, regardless if it makes sense or if it is true or not.

We are fucking this planet up the ass. Hard, and like a I once overheard a homey on the casino boat say to my blackjack dealer friend, "without the grease".

No one who matters is going to change a thing. The money men have too much inertia and control the media, which nearly everyone in America watches unfailingly.

The cap n tax is just another money making scheme that we're all supposed to feel good about because it shows our leaders are 'doing something'.

Pff.

Just like the TARP/TALF/PPIP/Stimulus/endless war plan was doing something.

Like making the already rich a whole lot richer and the rest of us a whole lot poorer.

Rinse, lather, and repeat. Eh?
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Re: Cap N Tax

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 29 Jun 2009, 14:52:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'Y')ikes.. my electricity bill is ALREADY set to hike up 30%, so I guess with cap n' trade that's another 30 odd percent? 8O


If your utility uses coal for electricity, and you live in the US, then you must pay Obama's carbon sin tax.

If you live in China, then Obama says burn all the coal and release all the carbon they want because its important not to hurt the Chinese economy.
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Re: Cap N Tax

Unread postby Pretorian » Mon 29 Jun 2009, 15:17:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlexdeLarge', '
')Those of you who think GW is proven science are fools.


Listen here, Adl, and wrap around your petty head this little thing: it doesnt matter wether GW is proven or not. Whatever you shit overthere, you or your kids will eat it later, no exceptions. The problem is that you, as a business owner, shit a tad more than you and your family are able to eat at the moment, and many people don't want to wait untill your grand-kids and great-grandkids will join the shitfeast, thus force-feeding is mandatory now.
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Re: Cap N Tax

Unread postby Pretorian » Mon 29 Jun 2009, 15:21:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'Y')ikes.. my electricity bill is ALREADY set to hike up 30%, so I guess with cap n' trade that's another 30 odd percent? 8O


If your utility uses coal for electricity, and you live in the US, then you must pay Obama's carbon sin tax.

If you live in China, then Obama says burn all the coal and release all the carbon they want because its important not to hurt the Chinese economy.


But, they pay for everything, including your electricity bill with its sin tax. Do yu want them to stop?
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Re: Cap N Tax

Unread postby jasonraymondson » Mon 29 Jun 2009, 16:14:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', 'I') have more important things to do. Like my laundry.


I'm not going to argue with your points, because there is some truth there, but why do you post such obviously worthless crap and create more discord? You exacerbate the problems about which you so vitriolically spew verbal attacks. You are your own worst enemy in this problem, when you take a step back and look at it objectively. Have you thought about how much time and energy you waste with your accusatory and pointless posts? If you were to analyze the net effect of your posts, is it positive or negative?


quite negative. but I am not trying to claim otherwise and that is my point. People know what to expect from me, I don't sugar coat, but I am at least honest with who I am on this site.

This is more of a do as you claim you say you are doing than do as I say i am and am doing spiel
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Re: Cap N Tax

Unread postby Jotapay » Mon 29 Jun 2009, 16:24:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', 'q')uite negative. but I am not trying to claim otherwise and that is my point. People know what to expect from me, I don't sugar coat, but I am at least honest with who I am on this site.

This is more of a do as you claim you say you are doing than do as I say i am and am doing spiel


Fair enough. I'm not telling you what to do, but if I found I was yelling at people and telling them they were stupid most of the time, I wouldn't waste my energy there. That is why I don't post over at LATOC. I got tired of telling them that their shotgun-worship was stupidity and quit posting.
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Re: Cap N Tax

Unread postby AlexdeLarge » Mon 29 Jun 2009, 16:28:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'i')t doesnt matter wether GW is proven or not.


My point exactly.........................................
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