[jasonraymondson]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GASMON', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', 'I') have more important things to do. Like my laundry.

[AlexdeLarge]

Obama EPA blocks its own report on climate change

Sen. Inhofe Calls for Inquiry Into 'Suppressed' Climate Change Report
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/29/gop-senator-calls-inquiry-supressed-climate-change-report/

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he 98-page report, co-authored by EPA analyst Alan Carlin, pushed back on the prospect of regulating gases like carbon dioxide as a way to reduce global warming. Carlin's report argued that the information the EPA was using was out of date, and that even as atmospheric carbon dioxide levels have increased, global temperatures have declined.

According to internal e-mails that have been made public by the Competitive Enterprise Institute, Carlin's boss told him in March that his material would not be incorporated into a broader EPA finding and ordered Carlin to stop working on the climate change issue.

[odegaard]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', 'I') want to hang out at a place where people have brains so they rub off,

[jasonraymondson]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('odegaard', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', 'I') want to hang out at a place where people have brains so they rub off,

[odegaard]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', 'W')hats your point?

[pablonite]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', 'S')o to me, it's just another excuse for more governmental control over our lives.

[odegaard]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pablonite', 'N')othing in the way of "enviromental movement" will make one iota of difference, in fact it can only make things worse. Mass producing solar cells, electric cars and other assorted electronic junk.

[Thralen]

And now back to the thread topic from the flame fest occurring.

Short thought here, I skipped part of the middle of the thread so someone may have pointed this out already.

One of the reasons many people don't bother with renewable energy is that the price per KW hour is larger than that from coal, oil, etc... The accepted polluting energy providers. I wonder, actually, if the tax is going to get the price per KW hour for these accepted long time polluting energy sources equal to or over that which is currently quoted for renewables.

Just a thought here but I would not put it past .gov to engineer a fashion in which renewables become equal to or less expensive than the traditional energy sources.

Thoughts? Am I imagining a possible reason for this or does it seem like a logical possibility?

Thralen

[ECM]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Thralen', 'A')nd now back to the thread topic from the flame fest occurring.

Short thought here, I skipped part of the middle of the thread so someone may have pointed this out already.

One of the reasons many people don't bother with renewable energy is that the price per KW hour is larger than that from coal, oil, etc... The accepted polluting energy providers. I wonder, actually, if the tax is going to get the price per KW hour for these accepted long time polluting energy sources equal to or over that which is currently quoted for renewables.

Just a thought here but I would not put it past .gov to engineer a fashion in which renewables become equal to or less expensive than the traditional energy sources.

Thoughts? Am I imagining a possible reason for this or does it seem like a logical possibility?

Thralen

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Thralen', 'A')nd now back to the thread topic from the flame fest occurring.

Short thought here, I skipped part of the middle of the thread so someone may have pointed this out already.

One of the reasons many people don't bother with renewable energy is that the price per KW hour is larger than that from coal, oil, etc... The accepted polluting energy providers. I wonder, actually, if the tax is going to get the price per KW hour for these accepted long time polluting energy sources equal to or over that which is currently quoted for renewables.

Just a thought here but I would not put it past .gov to engineer a fashion in which renewables become equal to or less expensive than the traditional energy sources.

Thoughts? Am I imagining a possible reason for this or does it seem like a logical possibility?

Thralen

[Thralen]

I'm not denying that there are additional costs not factored into the monetary cost of KWH of traditional polluting power sources. However, your average American does not factor those in, they just look at the total on the bill each month. I was just pointing out that this tax will raise the per KWH price to be comparable or over the price of renewables. Thereby encouraging the average citizen who is either unaware of the side affects of polluting power sources or simply doesn't give a crap to run with renewable energy sources because either 1. they are cheaper or 2. they are willing to spend the minimal extra amount to go with renewable instead of traditional power sources.

My point was to ask if anyone else thought this was an ulterior motive for this tax. Obviously they can get behind and make a case for the stated reason for the tax, regardless of the uproar it causes. I was wondering if I should credit the .gov with being sly enough to have promotion of renewables for an ulterior motive. If so I have to rethink my opinion of .gov, never gave them credit for being clever enough to know the definition of an ulterior motive, never mind have one.

Thralen

[dohboi]

Thrall, have you been living under a rock for the last three decades?

That is not the "ulterior" motive. That is the primary goal of the bill.

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Thralen', 'I')'m not denying that there are additional costs not factored into the monetary cost of KWH of traditional polluting power sources. However, your average American does not factor those in, they just look at the total on the bill each month. I was just pointing out that this tax will raise the per KWH price to be comparable or over the price of renewables. Thereby encouraging the average citizen who is either unaware of the side affects of polluting power sources or simply doesn't give a crap to run with renewable energy sources because either 1. they are cheaper or 2. they are willing to spend the minimal extra amount to go with renewable instead of traditional power sources.

My point was to ask if anyone else thought this was an ulterior motive for this tax. Obviously they can get behind and make a case for the stated reason for the tax, regardless of the uproar it causes. I was wondering if I should credit the .gov with being sly enough to have promotion of renewables for an ulterior motive. If so I have to rethink my opinion of .gov, never gave them credit for being clever enough to know the definition of an ulterior motive, never mind have one.

Thralen

[Thralen]

Hey dohboi... Show me ANYTHING put out by the .gov itself that says that that is the primary purpose? ehh? I was saying that I thought it might be part of the reason. I'm not saying that they aren't lying through their teeth when they state their primary purpose for the bill but, as mentioned, I hadn't seen it noted in the thread. If you knew? Why didn't you note it?

Rangerone314: Why you jumping all over me with this crap? I believe we ought to pull all the military out of non-US territories myself. Save billions of dollars and then when they kill themselves off we can claim it and move in with it as US territory, unfortunately the other countries would have a problem with the US extending itself that way.

I'm not supporting the bill, or trying to and do not see how you could construe my posts as such. I use terms such as 'traditional' to determine what the majority of people think of when they think of power stations. Not because I think they are correct but because they are common usage.

I was simply pointing out that with all the people bitching about the added taxes here that there was the additional result of raising power generation prices to be on par with renewables and possibly that was a planned result.

Thralen

[Sixstrings]

Franken is in, so now the dems have a fillibuster-proof super-majority. I guess this means cap n' trade is going to happen.. I expect it to be watered down a bit, but with super-majority it's going to pass.

[sameu]

in fact it's a good thing this will hurt the us economy, since it's based on destroying the planet at a very fast rate
oe but but china is doing it also, yeah but china is also becoming a toxical wasteland very fast, so not something to be so jealous about

[AlexdeLarge]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sameu', 'i')n fact it's a good thing this will hurt the us economy

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlexdeLarge', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sameu', 'i')n fact it's a good thing this will hurt the us economy

[odegaard]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'D')oes the price per KW hour for coal include acid rain damage, displacement of people (like in Bangledesh), damage to water tables, and health issues associated with mercury? How about radiation from coal?
....