[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '
')My discussion with you regarding this subject matter is over.

good bye

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '
')Having said that NO light rail system in the USA, not even the busiest, carries even the equivalent of a single lane of traffic on a busy freeway.

[shortonoil]

mos6507 said:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')That's a rather sweeping genearlization. The state still has a very small population, like 1/10th that of MA.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonoil', '
')Much of Vermont is now primarily an aging Yuppie land of NYC escapees. Like the rest of the nation, it has drunk deep from the progress jug of KoolAid. It will be no haven for the dramatic decline that is on the horizon.

[MarkJ]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MarkJ', 'T')hese zoning laws and deed restrictions also prevent developers from using large tracts of undeveloped acreage, farmland and wooded land for high density developments.

[MarkJ]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')uch of Vermont is now primarily an aging Yuppie land of NYC escapees. Like the rest of the nation, it has drunk deep from the progress jug of KoolAid. It will be no haven for the dramatic decline that is on the horizon.

[Javaman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', 't')o: Javaman

Lets get straight to the point.
Are you trying to say we're going to be driving an average of 15,000 miles / year post peak?
Because that's the average right now in America.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonoil', '
')Yes it is a very small state (about 550,00 last time I looked) but I lived there for almost half a century, and a great number of them I know personally. It is not a sweeping generalization, it is an observation made on the spot, and made over a very, very long period of time.

It should have seceded in 1975.

[TreebeardsUncle]

So, when does suburbia begin to go into decline.

Looks like there could be at least 20 years before there is much of a change in California.
g

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TreebeardsUncle', 'S')o, when does suburbia begin to go into decline.

Looks like there could be at least 20 years before there is much of a change in California.
g

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Javaman', '
')If you happen to live and work close to a rail line, congratulations, you won the lottery. Those who must live and work elsewhere are subsidizing your ride, since for them it's almost always cheaper and faster to simply drive, yet they are still paying taxes to build and support a system that saves them no time, no money and very little fuel.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Javaman', '
')If you happen to live and work close to a rail line, congratulations, you won the lottery. Those who must live and work elsewhere are subsidizing your ride, since for them it's almost always cheaper and faster to simply drive, yet they are still paying taxes to build and support a system that saves them no time, no money and very little fuel.

[emersonbiggins]

Agreed, signal-to-noise ratio is getting quite low in here, no small thanks to people like myself at times. It's probably time to let this one die.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'A')greed, signal-to-noise ratio is getting quite low in here, no small thanks to people like myself at times. It's probably time to let this one die.

[shortonoil]

mos6507 said:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou can't just custom-order the social makeup of your neighbors.

[TreebeardsUncle]

Maybe this thread should be retitled: the decline of suburbis or maybe a separate thread on transportation modes should be pulled out. There could be a cars versus trains and/or light rail or a car pooling investigation thread. Of course, transportation modalities are essential in discussing suburban development. It is very clear that they live and die according to the availability of cheap long-distance automobile transportation.
Also, one needs to discriminate between exurbia, middle suburbia, and inner ring auto-centric surbia as well as street car versus auto-oriented suburbia. Need to discriminate in terms of the near (less than 5 years out), middle term (5 to 50 years out), and long-term (centuries out) transformations that are likely to occur.
g

[Javaman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Javaman', '
')If you happen to live and work close to a rail line, congratulations, you won the lottery. Those who must live and work elsewhere are subsidizing your ride, since for them it's almost always cheaper and faster to simply drive, yet they are still paying taxes to build and support a system that saves them no time, no money and very little fuel.

[gwmss15]

"Most metro area residents in a large city do not live or work downtown or near a rail line, so any transit-induced reduction in congestion, real or imagined, does not benefit most of them. They might travel downtown, occasionally, to see a ball game or hear a concert, but these events are usually at night or weekends when traffic is much lighter. They are probably traveling two or more to a car, too."

This is crap I can name a number of large cities that have huge numbers of people commuting in from outer areas into the innercity/CBD area for work and shopping.

Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Perth, Singapore, KL, Bangkok all have massive numbers travelling into the innercity at peak times. All the mass transport in theses cities have intensive city bound mass transport services. some of these cities it can be upto 60% of all work is in the innercity requiring mass transport commutes.

In fact in all of these cities you have trouble finding a reasonably priced condo within 15 km of the centre/innercity. All the cities i have lived and worked in have had very busy and popular inner city cores and older innercity suburbs that are very expensive to rent or buy in.

Therefore any upgrade to outer suburban to innercity mass transport links will make life easier for outer suburban people getting to work and study etc. Plus these mass transport upgrades save massive amounts of OIL and CO2 etc from people not going by private car.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Javaman', '
')
Most metro area residents in a large city do not live or work downtown or near a rail line, so any transit-induced reduction in congestion, real or imagined, does not benefit most of them.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Javaman', '
')Most metro area residents in a large city do not live or work downtown or near a rail line, so any transit-induced reduction in congestion, real or imagined, does not benefit most of them.