[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Javaman', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Javaman', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Javaman', '
')OK, so whose historic in-town neighborhood shall we raze to make room for high-density housing for all these former suburbanites?

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '
')BTW emersonbiggins there seems to be a universal agreement that life after PO == a decreased standard of living but exactly how much?
Personally I'm thinking early 1900's maybe (1900 - 1920)
what about you?

[Javaman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Javaman', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Javaman', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Javaman', '
')OK, so whose historic in-town neighborhood shall we raze to make room for high-density housing for all these former suburbanites?

[ReverseEngineer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '
')
That sounds about right. No doubt I think we will still have most of the accoutrements of the Industrial Revolution, e.g. mechanized farming (in some fashion), indoor plumbing, household electricity, and perhaps the Internet, but we are definitely in for a return to the halcyon days of the 1920s or 30s.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Javaman', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Javaman', 'O')K, so whose historic in-town neighborhood shall we raze to make room for high-density housing for all these former suburbanites?

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', 'W')hat I am against is this delusional fantasy that we can all live in 2,000 sq ft single family homes (with a front and back yard) and all be within 10 minute walking distance to a train station. THAT is what I am against.

[CarlosFerreira]

I believe the question is what kind of transportation and distribution systems can possibly supply the suburbs. People will have ti live somewhere, and the suburbs at least have a lawn you could probably raise some potatoes on, if things get tough and you have the skills to do it. Maintaining the suburbs is crucial - too many people live there, and there's nowhere they could relocate to - but shops and jobs have to move closer.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'T')hat sounds about right. No doubt I think we will still have most of the accoutrements of the Industrial Revolution, e.g. mechanized farming (in some fashion), indoor plumbing, household electricity, and perhaps the Internet, but we are definitely in for a return to the halcyon days of the 1920s or 30s.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Javaman', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Javaman', '
')Urban freeways aren't preventing any of those issues from occurring. A boulevard with a few stoplights isn't going to add a few cents to my carton of eggs, especially when you consider that "fast, efficient" freeways are mired in gridlock over 8 hours a day. The trucking-dependent society that we've become is that way by government fiat and design, not by some self-evident superiority of mode.

[shortonoil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'N')o. Why? A new energy source will be available soon. Just think of the circle.
Will it go round in circles
Will it fly high like a bird up in the sky
Will it go round in circles
Will it fly high like a bird up in the sky
I'll leave it at that.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'T')his is a far cry from the infamous "3,000 mile caesar salad" that we have grown accustomed to in today's world.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'T')his is a far cry from the infamous "3,000 mile caesar salad" that we have grown accustomed to in today's world.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonoil', 'N')ew energy supply - possible. The problem is, what will we use it with. Our present infrastructure is based on oil. All the energy in the galaxy is worthless, unless you have some way of utilizing it! We don’t and won’t for at least another forty years! A new civilization and all of its accompanying accouterments doesn’t just appear some afternoon!

[VMarcHart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'T')he population of the US supposedly is headed to over 400 million by 2025, mostly due to the collapse of Mexico.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '.')..
It's also a delusional fantasy that we can comperess all suburban areas back into the nearest cities like sardine cans without sucking away more quality of life than adapting to new realities in the 'burbs. The population of the US supposedly is headed to over 400 million by 2025, mostly due to the collapse of Mexico.

[Javaman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'G')roceries don't need to be delivered to your local store by an 80,000-lb rig - THAT is a fact. Grocery stores don't need to approach the size of 200,000 sq ft warehouses - ALSO a fact.
Now, in our 250-mi radius national distribution network that has grown up around the interstate system, obviously what we see now is the most efficient way to deliver those goods, with the system we currently have. It is not necessarily cost effective to continue doing this with the energy input variable accounting for a larger percentage of each and every truckload of goods.
For the record, I advocate relocalization, where a major percentage of a region's food consumption is produced IN that region, allowing for a much finer grain of distribution networks to emerge, utilizing smaller trucks, rail, and encouraging small business in the process.
This is a far cry from the infamous "3,000 mile caesar salad" that we have grown accustomed to in today's world.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Javaman', 'I')f each person, living in a city with a population density of 3500/square mile, ate a pound of food per day, you would need to supply your stores with 24,500 pounds of food per week, assuming each store served a one-square mile area. An 80,000 pound truck carrying 50,000 pounds could supply four of those stores by making two trips per week. With your system, how many smaller trucks are you going to use? How much fuel do you expect to save?

[CarlosFerreira]

I'll be nice and just say we, in Europe, have been using those trucks for a long time. The US has a long way to go until achieving the kind of energy efficiency Europe has. There's a lot of fat to trim there!

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'I')t's not necessarily asses to elbows in [most] cities, either,

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', 'M')y vision of the future sees a HARD crash. Private ownership of cars will not exist (except for the rich). And without that, it is impossible for suburbia to survive.Private ownership of the automobile is the "umbilical cord" that sustains suburbia