[Javaman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Javaman', 'A')side from the cost of owning a car (which is worth the cost!), tell me, where is the savings from riding the train?

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Javaman', '
')Now, again, show us how public transit saves fuel.

[CarlosFerreira]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'T')here are some intangibles, like letting go of road rage and being able to just sit back with an ipod or a laptop and not have to focus on the road. Also a monthly pass is a nice "all you can eat" feeling, being able to jump on any time you like without having to rationalize the trip.

[Javaman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Javaman', 'N')ow, again, show us how public transit saves fuel.

[CarlosFerreira]

Yes, but taking people to different stations is better than having them all take their cars to work, commuting daily to cities. I live a bit far from the train station, so I took the car to the station, parked there (we have a "Park and Ride" system) and took the train. Easy.

Also, in a nearby town, the train operator started a bicycle lending ideas. The town has some nice bike corridors. I agree it's not practical to have people cross large cities in bikes, especially if they are older folk or if it's raining. But it helped traffic there, they say. Oh, the bike lending is free - you pay a fee when you pick it up, and have the money back when bring it in.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Javaman', 'W')hat you seem to have missed is that "trolley buses", "CTrains" and other examples of municipal public transit are either slow or not extensive enough to provide much coverage. You -might- be getting high fuel efficiency, but not for long enough distances to matter, since buses and cars will still be needed to bring the bulk of the riders to the station.

[shortonoil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('alokin', 'I') guess less than one km to a station will be luxury in future. People will be happy to walk only half an hour to the station. But I do really agree that it does not seem to be very realistic to build a brand new tram system under these economic circumstances.

[Javaman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Javaman', 'W')hat you seem to have missed is that "trolley buses", "CTrains" and other examples of municipal public transit are either slow or not extensive enough to provide much coverage. You -might- be getting high fuel efficiency, but not for long enough distances to matter, since buses and cars will still be needed to bring the bulk of the riders to the station.

[shortonoil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Javaman', 'O')K, so whose historic in-town neighborhood shall we raze to make room for high-density housing for all these former suburbanites?

[gwmss15]

Well my former hometown of Melbourne Australia has one of the largest urban electric tramway "street cars" systems in the world and its still growing even if very slowly.

These Trams are now world famous as an icon of the city of Melbourne and have existed for over 100 years.

The trams form a dense network in the inner city upto 20 km out with rather old electric heavy rail system operating out to 60 km from the city centre. beyond that is a new network of frequent 160kph DMU intercity rail services. operating up to200km from the city.

The Melbourne Tramway system. Total system length: 245 kilometres (152 miles) opened in 1885: Large map of The Melbourne Tramway system

The Melbourne Metro Commuter rail system: Melbourne Metro Commuter rail system

The Interurban and intercity rail system (Vline) Mostly DMU sets: Interurban

Images of typical trams used on Melbourne's tram system.
Flinders St

Thai transit

tram

Melbourne
The point of all this is to illustrate that electric powered street cars or trams can and do have a home in urban cites around the world and will do again. Melbourne is the only city in Australia that did not succumb to the post war ripping up of all tram systems world wide.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Javaman', 'O')K, so whose historic in-town neighborhood shall we raze to make room for high-density housing for all these former suburbanites?

[Javaman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Javaman', 'O')K, so whose historic in-town neighborhood shall we raze to make room for high-density housing for all these former suburbanites?

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '.')..
--only in cities without robust mass transit options which, sadly, includes most of North America. Your blanket assertion of public transit "not" saving fuel (to which I am contending) is certainly not the fault of transit in general, but the dispersed and sprawling environment which it is charged (and unfairly, I might add) with serving.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Javaman', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Javaman', '
')OK, so whose historic in-town neighborhood shall we raze to make room for high-density housing for all these former suburbanites?

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', 'I')'m not against public transit. What I am against is this delusional fantasy that we can all live in 2,000 sq ft single family homes (with a front and back yard) and all be within 10 minute walking distance to a train station. THAT is what I am against.

[Serial_Worrier]

Bottom line is out of control government spending on Bush's wars and other entitlement programs has bankrupted the USA and no money for infrastructure repair, much less additional capacity.

[CarlosFerreira]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Serial_Worrier', 'B')ottom line is out of control government spending on Bush's wars and other entitlement programs has bankrupted the USA and no money for infrastructure repair, much less additional capacity.

[Javaman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Javaman', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Javaman', '
')OK, so whose historic in-town neighborhood shall we raze to make room for high-density housing for all these former suburbanites?

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', 'I')'m not against public transit. What I am against is this delusional fantasy that we can all live in 2,000 sq ft single family homes (with a front and back yard) and all be within 10 minute walking distance to a train station. THAT is what I am against.

[shortonoil]

cube asked:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')TW emersonbiggins there seems to be a universal agreement that life after PO == a decreased standard of living but exactly how much?
Personally I'm thinking early 1900's maybe (1900 - 1920) what about you?