[MrBill]

BT wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')rBill, I am befuddled, bewildered and confused as to why there are very few fuel efficient vehicles for sale in the U.S. It's incredible that the automakers are suffering the way they are, and they are not even offering what the people NEED right now.

[BigTex]

There is a part of me that thinks that the U.S. automakers will make a fortune in the next 10 years as people in the U.S. demand some kind of efficient transportation to get them around in an affordable manner.

If these companies already have these models for sale in Europe, at some point it will become cost effective to sell them here (I would think). Creative financing programs ought to help make them more affordable. If we can use dumb financing schemes to buy things we don't need, I would hope we could use them to buy things we do need.

As I read over my post, though, I wonder if maybe it's not about 10 years too late to do what I am suggesting.

[MrBill]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'T')here is a part of me that thinks that the U.S. automakers will make a fortune in the next 10 years as people in the U.S. demand some kind of efficient transportation to get them around in an affordable manner.

If these companies already have these models for sale in Europe, at some point it will become cost effective to sell them here (I would think). Creative financing programs ought to help make them more affordable. If we can use dumb financing schemes to buy things we don't need, I would hope we could use them to buy things we do need.

As I read over my post, though, I wonder if maybe it's not about 10 years too late to do what I am suggesting.

[patience]

I'm thinking that if there was a big demand in the US for cheap, efficient cars, somebody would be selling them here. I don't see car lots full of 40-50 mpg cars for sale, and I think it is because too many people here think of their dinosaur SUV's as status symbols. I know a lot of folks who say they would be "embarrassed" to drive a tiny car. Yeah, they have a lot to learn. But, they haven't learned it YET.

edit: The above mostly applies to city dwellers around here. The poorer people out here in the sticks have gotten over the status thing, and ARE looking for any form of cheap transportation.

[truecougarblue]

I had occasion this morning to take two different cars to fill up at the local Sam's Club.
$4.52/gal. The place was deserted, or nearly so. The only other vehicle there was a motorcyle rider who filled his tank for $21.00.

This was 6:30am for the first car 7:00am for the second. Normally this would be the beginning of drive time since I'm in an exurb. The shell station where I get my cheap refill of soda was empty at 7:30am.

It's definitely being felt out there.

[Starvid]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'U')nrest at 5.
Protests at 6.
Riots at 8-10.

After that it won't matter much.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'U')nrest at 5.
Protests at 6.
Riots at 8-10.

After that it won't matter much.

[truecougarblue]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', 'T')he riots here are really bad, with our $8-10 a gallon I mean.

You don't get panic and riots from high prices. You get'em if your citizens are savages. Or French.

[MrBill]

I dunno? I can appreciate the remark or dark humor if you will. The Spanish strike and the French riot at the drop of a hat. That is an exceptable form of protest for them and for their leaders.

Spanish fishermen have fished their seas dry and now they're working on everyone else's. They already get diesel without any taxes. They are striking because they now want a 40% subsidy. That and higher quotas for non-existant fish as well as import duties on fish coming into the EU.

Sometimes you have to see the hubris for what it is, and realize that it is unrealistic expectations and not genuine economic hard times. There is a good reason why Spain (and Portugal) were so poor prior to joining the EU and getting access to a larger public trough.

As a European resident and taxpayer as well as a concerned citizen Spanish water policies are an absolute environmental disgrace, and the amount of corruption surrounding land speculation and development in Spain would make an Italian blush. If Scandinavians want to criticize that in jest or in ernst then I think they have a perfect right as EU citizens.

I would not want to be in the USA post peak oil, but then I have no particular desire to live there even on a good day. If the criticism stings it is probably close to the mark. Got God and Guns? ; - )

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', '.')..
I would not want to be in the USA post peak oil, but then I have no particular desire to live there even on a good day. If the criticism stings it is probably close to the mark. Got God and Guns? ; - )

[Cashmere]

You know, I generally appreciate the EU posters here as being worldly.

But Starvid, you're coming dangerously close to being a EuroDoucheBag:

You wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')The riots here are really bad, with our $8-10 a gallon I mean. You don't get panic and riots from high prices. You get'em if your citizens are savages. Or French.

[Starvid]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('truecougarblue', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', 'T')he riots here are really bad, with our $8-10 a gallon I mean.

You don't get panic and riots from high prices. You get'em if your citizens are savages. Or French.

[Starvid]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '[')url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_carry]Open Carry[/url]
Open carry is shorthand terminology for "openly carrying a firearm in public." In the United States, the degrees of legality of open carry varies.

here's a map of the USA listing which states allow civilian possession of machine guns.
http://www.opencarry.org/machinegun.html

[joelcolorado]

I love to see the Europeans responses online here. Of course we saved their asses in TWO world wars which they have YET to pay the USA back for in loans etc. A loan means REPAYMENT, and no one wants to do that for gods sake.

And it will happen again when a rogue nation gets a nuke and threatens Europe with it. Like Iran is doing now. Once they can deliver one, they will begin to dictate their will on Spain and France and you others and you will cry running to old Uncle Sam once again. Hell you rolled over for Hitler and we had to come clear over there to rescue you. After it was over, you would have thot you won the entire war with some small civil actions.

Europeans are good at one thing. TALK.

[Heineken]

I'm rather fond of Scandinavia, as a concept.

George Orwell said, "The thinking person is a Socialist."

But I'm surprised at how regressive many Scandinavians' opinions seem to be. (We have a few Canadians like that on PO.com, too.)

[Starvid]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'Y')ou know, I generally appreciate the EU posters here as being worldly.

But Starvid, you're coming dangerously close to being a EuroDoucheBag:

[Starvid]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joelcolorado', 'I') love to see the Europeans responses online here. Of course we saved their asses in TWO world wars which they have YET to pay the USA back for in loans etc. A loan means REPAYMENT, and no one wants to do that for gods sake.

And it will happen again when a rogue nation gets a nuke and threatens Europe with it. Like Iran is doing now. Once they can deliver one, they will begin to dictate their will on Spain and France and you others and you will cry running to old Uncle Sam once again. Hell you rolled over for Hitler and we had to come clear over there to rescue you. After it was over, you would have thot you won the entire war with some small civil actions.

Europeans are good at one thing. TALK.

[Cashmere]

Bullshit.

I'd be taxed at 60% in Sweden just for my income, plus a tax of 1.5% on wealth, plus a VAT?

Is that right?

They also tax you for money you've already earned and already paid 60% taxes on?

What a joke.

The effective tax rate on me in Sweden would probably be over 80% once you accounted for all the VAT and any other taxes paid.

The best part is they tax you on money you've already earned and paid tax on and is sitting in the bank.

Wow.

As for all oil being imported, call me in 20 years.

[joelcolorado]

Oh you are right. Iran would never attack anyone.

Peace in our TIME. ....chamberlain

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'B')ullshit.

I'd be taxed at 60% in Sweden just for my income, plus a tax of 1.5% on wealth, plus a VAT?

Is that right?

They also tax you for money you've already earned and already paid 60% taxes on?

What a joke.

The effective tax rate on me in Sweden would probably be over 80% once you accounted for all the VAT and any other taxes paid.

The best part is they tax you on money you've already earned and paid tax on and is sitting in the bank.

Wow.

As for all oil being imported, call me in 20 years.