[Cashmere]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('H', 'S')o if I get really sick I have to liquidate virtually everything before Medicaid picks me up. That's even worse than a 60% tax! In Sweden you pay plenty, but you get plenty. Scandinavia has the world's highest living standards. Our own living standards are starting to look more and more third-world.

[MrBill]

You're right Cashmere. Universal healthcare means everyone has to suffer. It is morally, and sometimes legally, wrong to be able to get treatment ahead of the next person, unless you're politically connected or a sports personality or something. So I can pay into the system my whole life, but when I need treatment, I join the back of the queue behind those that never gave a damn about their health, smoked, over-ate, never exercised, practiced unsafe sex, etc.

To be honest I have private German healthcare. Bloody expensive, but it is portable. I can take it with me. I can get treatment anywhere in the world anytime. That is peace of mind. I pay for it. I get the benefit. I value that over a big screen TV or a second car. If I fall into a crevice, I have already paid for the helicopter to come fish me out.

I think that everyone should have basic medical coverage. And that everyone should be obligated to be in either a public or private plan. No exceptions. But I almost puked when I found out the kinds of elective surgery are covered in Canada, but the Feds were threatening Alberta in court for offering a two-tier healthcare system.

That is fcking politicians! I can get liposuction because I am obese, but I cannot get my ACL repaired by a sports specialist because some senior needs a hip replacement or two or maybe both knees and their hips. All so they can sit in front of the TV for the next couple of years until they finally die.

NHS - Got superbugs? ; - ))

[Fredrik]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'I')'m rather fond of Scandinavia, as a concept.

George Orwell said, "The thinking person is a Socialist."

But I'm surprised at how regressive many Scandinavians' opinions seem to be. (We have a few Canadians like that on PO.com, too.)

[MrBill]

Ah the great American myth: rugged individualist settlers of the New World. Davey, Davey Crockett, King of the Wild Frontier! Last time I checked the new world was (re)discovered by Europeans, and the great waves of settlement came only after the infrastructure like railroads and steamships were already in place? Circa 1848 onwards. Meanwhile Europeans had pretty much conquered the known world by 1588. You know being as timid and unadventurous as they were! ; - ))

[truecougarblue]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', ' ')Meanwhile Europeans had pretty much conquered the known world by 1588. You know being as timid and unadventurous as they were! ; - ))

[Fredrik]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'A')h the great American myth: rugged individualist settlers of the New World. Davey, Davey Crockett, King of the Wild Frontier! Last time I checked the new world was (re)discovered by Europeans, and the great waves of settlement came only after the infrastructure like railroads and steamships were already in place? Circa 1848 onwards. Meanwhile Europeans had pretty much conquered the known world by 1588. You know being as timid and unadventurous as they were! ; - ))

[MrBill]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('truecougarblue', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', ' ')Meanwhile Europeans had pretty much conquered the known world by 1588. You know being as timid and unadventurous as they were! ; - ))

[truecougarblue]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', '
') I just like to stir the pot once in a while.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'Y')ou're right Cashmere. Universal healthcare means everyone has to suffer. It is morally, and sometimes legally, wrong to be able to get treatment ahead of the next person, unless you're politically connected or a sports personality or something.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'I') don't want or need the govt. to step in if I get "really really sick."

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Wait until you lose your coverage and have nothing. Then comment.

[MrBill]

Heineken wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')uh, Mr. Bill? The idea behind universal health care is that everyone gets care---at least some basic care. So then it doesn't matter if you're Tiger Woods or not. You can get your broken leg set without second-mortgaging the house.

[ROCKMAN]

I agree Mr. Bill. The lack of attention paid to PO by the gov't is similar to their approach to medical care -- we'll do what seems to make folks happy for the moment and not worry about the future.

Off the topic a little but - I have seen an interesting story regarding Mass. or Mich. : mandatory health care coverage provided by the individual and if one fails to acquire coverage (unless fitting one of the exemptions) they a fined. As much as this goes against my basic libertarian nature there are times when it's best for society that the gov't apply "force". Another example would be the requirement of flood ins. for those building in the flood plain.

[desultorypawn]

when gas prices force unemployment to 10-20%

[truecougarblue]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ROCKMAN', '
')
Off the topic a little but

[Starvid]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'B')ullshit.

I'd be taxed at 60% in Sweden just for my income, plus a tax of 1.5% on wealth, plus a VAT?

Is that right?

They also tax you for money you've already earned and already paid 60% taxes on?

What a joke.

The effective tax rate on me in Sweden would probably be over 80% once you accounted for all the VAT and any other taxes paid.

The best part is they tax you on money you've already earned and paid tax on and is sitting in the bank.

Wow.

As for all oil being imported, call me in 20 years.

[Starvid]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joelcolorado', 'O')h you are right. Iran would never attack anyone.

Peace in our TIME. ....chamberlain

[Starvid]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fredrik', 'S')candinavia is still quite far from actual socialism. Scandinavians just lack the deep distrust of government shared by most Americans, who descended from the rugged individualist settlers of the New World. We might get to see socialism one day but by then it will probably be a kind that would make Orwell vomit, socialism without social equality or social values.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joelcolorado', 'I') love to see the Europeans responses online here. Of course we saved their asses in TWO world wars which they have YET to pay the USA back for in loans etc. A loan means REPAYMENT, and no one wants to do that for gods sake.

And it will happen again when a rogue nation gets a nuke and threatens Europe with it. Like Iran is doing now. Once they can deliver one, they will begin to dictate their will on Spain and France and you others and you will cry running to old Uncle Sam once again. Hell you rolled over for Hitler and we had to come clear over there to rescue you. After it was over, you would have thot you won the entire war with some small civil actions.

Europeans are good at one thing. TALK.

[eastbay]

I'm in Singapore right now and with gasoline over US$ 6.00/g traffic is as jammed as ever ... maybe even moreso. People complain, however the driving goes on as before.


Earlier this week we drove around and through KL in central Malaysia and the freeways and main traffic arteries were stop and go, absolutely filled with cars, and this in a country now paying near market for gasoline with a per capita income roughly the same as Mexico's. People protest and loudly complain, but driving continues much as it did before the recent partial lifting of subsidies.


It will take considerably more costly fuel for people to reduce consumption. 3 or $4.00 was thought to be the breaking point and it isn't even close. $6.00 isn't slowing demand in at least one major city either. Maybe $10.00/g will cause consumption to slow. But that's what we said about 3 and $4.00 gas back when it was selling for around $1.00.


We'll certainly find out when the time comes ... which shouldn't be too long a wait.


Based on my recent experience, I strongly suspect it's going to take much more than US$ 6.00/g to get people to significantly move away from personal ICE transport.