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THE Energy Bulletin Thread (merged)

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: Fatih Birol interview: 'Leave oil before it leaves us'

Unread postby mos6507 » Fri 02 May 2008, 20:10:43

When stuff like this hits CNN I'll be more impressed. Energy Bulletin is a "preaching to the converted" source.
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Re: Fatih Birol interview: 'Leave oil before it leaves us'

Unread postby americandream » Fri 02 May 2008, 22:58:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GoghGoner', '
')This is from late 2007, too.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')peaking at the launch of the IEA’s latest World Energy Outlook in London, Mr Birol reiterated both the Agency’s long term forecast that oil production will reach 116 million barrels per day in 2030.

You have to understand that IEA oil consumption forecasts are demand based.

They take a look at the historical link between GDP growth and oil consumption growth, and then extrapolate oil demand (which they call production) from a given rate of global GDP growth.

It's more of a model than a prediction of physical reality.


I like fellows like you. You're always stirring up confusion and thereby muddying the issues. What is the physical reality?

Will we ever know? Taking your indecisiveness to its ultimate limit, we will never know what the physical limts of this planets crude reserves are given a whole raft of reasons that come to mind, some technological, some economic, some geologic and so forth so why bother doing anything! For all we know, the planet may be awash with oil in reserves deep below currently accessible sources.

In the final analysis, all assumptions as regards our planet's resources such as oil will be based on models and reasonable, sometimes unreasonable guestimates.

All we can do is take the one that conforms most closely with the extrapolation each of us consider reasonable and run with it. Clearly, if you are of the view that peak oil is a weak model, then may I suggest that you remove yourself to a website that caters for your views rather than create confusion and indecisiveness here. I am sure the guys at CERA would be delighted with your input.

And the best model will win in time! Have no fear.
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Re: Fatih Birol interview: 'Leave oil before it leaves us'

Unread postby Starvid » Sat 03 May 2008, 08:27:26

Jesus christ monkey balls, what's wrong with you?

Muddying up the issues? I'm explaining IEA's warped thinking so people understand not even IEA ever believed in the 115-120 mbpd numbers! Those numbers are predicted demand at a given price, not predicted real physical supply!

And indecisiveness? I've on numerous occasions stated exactly what I think need to be done, and that it should have been done yesterday!
Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
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Re: Fatih Birol interview: 'Leave oil before it leaves us'

Unread postby FreddyH » Sun 04 May 2008, 04:21:58

IEA also performs a bottom-up analysis that projects a plateau of 86.5-mbd until 2015, followed by reduced peak of 100-mbd in 2030.

This 2007 Alternative Scenario is based on a 7.7% Underlying Decline Rate in mature Conventional non-opec fields. Overall, IEA calculates a 3.75% Underlying Decline rate for All Liquids.

This was IEA's most conservative Outlook since its first forecast of a Peak in 1998.
www.TrendLines.ca/scenarios.htm Home of the Real Peak Date ... set by geologists (not pundits)
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Re: Fatih Birol interview: 'Leave oil before it leaves us'

Unread postby TheDude » Sun 04 May 2008, 05:10:35

Wow.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')irol: Even if the oil reserves of Saudi-Arabia should be estimated wrongly by 50 %, they could increase their production from 12 mb a day to 18 mb. But I don't think they will raise production that much in the next 25 years. So there are mainly three different problems: geology, investment and policy of the main oil producers. Those three aspects taken together make the future of oil very difficult.


Even though the 50% figure was prompted by the interviewer (using the case of the EWG study), it's a bit hair raising with Birol considering the notion that those OPEC reserves might really just be pure paper. And he's calling for real transparency from producers - just like Simmons has been doing!

It would be really wild if this became a ball to kick around during elections.
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Re: Fatih Birol interview: 'Leave oil before it leaves us'

Unread postby TheDude » Sun 04 May 2008, 16:59:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FreddyH', 'I')EA also performs a bottom-up analysis that projects a plateau of 86.5-mbd until 2015, followed by reduced peak of 100-mbd in 2030.

This 2007 Alternative Scenario is based on a 7.7% Underlying Decline Rate in mature Conventional non-opec fields. Overall, IEA calculates a 3.75% Underlying Decline rate for All Liquids.

This was IEA's most conservative Outlook since its first forecast of a Peak in 1998.
What is this gobbledygook? I just read that IEA bases it's production projections on historical demand trends (see Starvid immediately above). So how can you suggest IEA performs a 'bottom up analysis'? Does IEA dig holes in the ground?


Well, for WEO 2008 they promise this:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'â')€¢ Crude oil and natural gas production prospects: How will geology affect future hydrocarbon supplies? Will investment be adequate? Through field-by-field analysis of production trends at hundreds of the world’s largest fields, an assessment of the potential for finding and developing new reserves, and a bottom-up analysis of upstream costs and investment, WEO 2008 takes a hard look at future global oil and gas supply.


Order now - special price of a mere €108. Dunno if they've done bottom up analysis before - is that what you're implying Fred?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ow can a plateau ending in 2015 turn into a 'reduced' peak 15 years later? Do you intentionally obfuscate FreddyH?


All I know about Freddy's projections is that they seem to change every other week, making them...less than useful...damned if I can tell what's changed to make him revise the peak date by 6 years on the drop of a hat.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')fter all additions & revisions this week, the net effect on the TrendLines AVG was that the Peak Rate falls to 91-mbd (from 93) and advances to 2013 (from 2017). The back drop is a 2010 to 2024 Plateau (defined as within 2-mbd of Peak Rate). As such, there have been and will continue to be significant date shifts of The Peak upon minimal Peak Rate adjustments.

Think the plateau's the important thing. Believe that if you want.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')ith all the silly talk at the EnergyResources-YahooGroup, theOilDrum & PeakOil.com, a Worst Case Scenario (WCS) is introduced today. The majority of Peaksters chat about running out of oil and their preparations for a MadMax lifestyle. Y'all know the drill: buy cabin, buy rifles, booby-trap homestead periphery, load-up on ammo, bury dry food cache, etc as they await the collapse of the American Empire, the Dollar & society in general. Five billion souls will Die-off in the dire Apocalypse. And it all starts in a few days...

What, no cannibalism? Image
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Re: Fatih Birol interview: 'Leave oil before it leaves us'

Unread postby LastViking » Sun 04 May 2008, 17:25:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FreddyH', 'I')EA also performs a bottom-up analysis that projects a plateau of 86.5-mbd until 2015, followed by reduced peak of 100-mbd in 2030.

This 2007 Alternative Scenario is based on a 7.7% Underlying Decline Rate in mature Conventional non-opec fields. Overall, IEA calculates a 3.75% Underlying Decline rate for All Liquids.

This was IEA's most conservative Outlook since its first forecast of a Peak in 1998.
What is this gobbledygook? I just read that IEA bases it's production projections on historical demand trends (see Starvid immediately above). So how can you suggest IEA performs a 'bottom up analysis'? Does IEA dig holes in the ground?

How can a plateau ending in 2015 turn into a 'reduced' peak 15 years later? Do you intentionally obfuscate FreddyH?


It is the IEA's Reference Scenario with its 116-mbd Peak in 2030 that is Demand based ... not the Alternative Scenario that i referenced.
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Re: Fatih Birol interview: 'Leave oil before it leaves us'

Unread postby byoilhercomesthesunbuy » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 15:39:46

Do we understand the earth so well that we know how oil is used by the earth?

When we take out all this oil how does it effect the earths crust and plates?

Can this affect earthquake or Volcanic action?

If we don't change to alternatives and we have to line up at pumps and not go to work who will run the shop?

Will the shop run?

Will we all be nice and sit around and hug each other?

Why not sit around and wait and see?
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Re: Fatih Birol interview: 'Leave oil before it leaves us'

Unread postby AirlinePilot » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 16:11:19

Interesting first post. Welcome to PO.
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Re: Fatih Birol interview: 'Leave oil before it leaves us'

Unread postby byoilhercomesthesunbuy » Tue 03 Jun 2008, 16:25:25

Thank you

-

Is coal always given to those that start.

http://www.kobashi.co.uk/pdfs/NASA_Scie ... f_Coal.pdf

Coal leaves me kind of nostalgic. I liked going down into my grandmothers cellar, grandfather was dead at that time, I was 7, and I found coal. I asked my grandmother about it and she said that's what we use to run the boiler on to heat the house. I was amazed that something that dirty would be used.

To me coal was an old fuel 44 years ago. My grandmother saw it as antiquated.
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