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THE Gas Rationing Thread (merged)

How to save energy through both societal and individual actions.

Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing

Unread postby Dreamtwister » Sun 20 Apr 2008, 18:33:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', 'I')f there were rationing, you can be assured that the legion of big, black suburbans will get the first spot in line.

Nope, me on foot with my gas can will be 1st.

I'm sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. I wasn't talking about civilian suburbans...
The whole of human history is a refutation by experiment of the concept of "moral world order". - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing

Unread postby BigTex » Sun 20 Apr 2008, 18:35:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', 'I')f there were rationing, you can be assured that the legion of big, black suburbans will get the first spot in line.

Nope, me on foot with my gas can will be 1st.

I'm sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. I wasn't talking about civilian suburbans...

Presidential motorcade is a line of Suburbans with a sedan or two in the middle.
:)
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Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing

Unread postby Pops » Sun 20 Apr 2008, 18:37:15

While people are talking about fuel here, they should be thinking about food prices instead of whatever crimps their commute.

What is in your pantry folks?
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
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Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing

Unread postby vision-master » Sun 20 Apr 2008, 18:38:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he sanest, most reasonable method to all this is letting the market run its course.

Just like our Health Care system is. :razz:
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Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing

Unread postby BigTex » Sun 20 Apr 2008, 18:40:39

Gas rationing will bring forgotten terms back into the lexicon as well, such as "Oklahoma credit card" (i.e., a length of hose used for stealing gas).
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Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing

Unread postby jlw61 » Sun 20 Apr 2008, 18:47:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', 'I')f there were rationing, you can be assured that the legion of big, black suburbans will get the first spot in line.

Nope, me on foot with my gas can will be 1st.

I'm sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. I wasn't talking about civilian suburbans...

Great point! Rest assured that even local government will get theirs first, to the last vehicle (even the one used by the guy who drives around looking for graffiti). Perhaps even before delivery vehicles (madness) and the electric company (suicide).

BTW, while this is thread has had some good points made, there is one thing we haven't really talked about.

Will it work? If we lose more than 25% of today's production in less than a few years, would rationing be of any use? I think rationing would only work if we had a fairly slow to moderate fall off in consumer available fuel. If it falls off too fast in too short of a period of time, depression, very high unemployment, riots and a lot of real good "popcorn time" events.

In many fall-off scenarios, IMHO, rationing would be useless.
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Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing

Unread postby jlw61 » Sun 20 Apr 2008, 18:53:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he sanest, most reasonable method to all this is letting the market run its course.

Just like our Health Care system is. :razz:

While I have no intention of hi-jacking the thread, I can't let this one go.

The health care system is badly warped by government intervention. Look it up, government programs account for a very large proportion of payments for health care. Removing the government bureaucracy as a large payer would put downward pressure on prices.
When somebody makes a statement you don't understand, don't tell him he's crazy. Ask him what he means. -- Otto Harkaman, Space Viking
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Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing

Unread postby Pops » Sun 20 Apr 2008, 19:00:33

So from where does your food come and how does it get to you...

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/wohdp/diesel.asp

You guys are talking about healthcare while your food delivery costs alone have risen 25% in a year.

Check out the title of the site....
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing

Unread postby vision-master » Sun 20 Apr 2008, 19:08:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jlw61', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he sanest, most reasonable method to all this is letting the market run its course.

Just like our Health Care system is. :razz:

While I have no intention of hi-jacking the thread, I can't let this one go.
The health care system is badly warped by government intervention. Look it up, government programs account for a very large proportion of payments for health care. Removing the government bureaucracy as a large payer would put downward pressure on prices.

The most costly Healthcare system is what we have in the USA & we are ranked 37th from the top. Horse-shit my friend.
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Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing

Unread postby DantesPeak » Sun 20 Apr 2008, 19:10:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jlw61', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he sanest, most reasonable method to all this is letting the market run its course.

Just like our Health Care system is. :razz:

While I have no intention of hi-jacking the thread, I can't let this one go.
The health care system is badly warped by government intervention. Look it up, government programs account for a very large proportion of payments for health care. Removing the government bureaucracy as a large payer would put downward pressure on prices.

The most costly Heath Care system is what we have in the USA & we are ranked 37th from the top. Horse-shit my friend.

Got a link to that unkind comment?
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Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing

Unread postby vision-master » Sun 20 Apr 2008, 19:13:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DantesPeak', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jlw61', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he sanest, most reasonable method to all this is letting the market run its course.

Just like our Health Care system is. :razz:

While I have no intention of hi-jacking the thread, I can't let this one go.
The health care system is badly warped by government intervention. Look it up, government programs account for a very large proportion of payments for health care. Removing the government bureaucracy as a large payer would put downward pressure on prices.

The most costly Heath Care system is what we have in the USA & we are ranked 37th from the top. Horse-shit my friend.

Got a link to that unkind comment?
Do a search on Healthcare PBS. They have been running a special show the last few weeks. Our system sucks............
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Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing

Unread postby threadbear » Sun 20 Apr 2008, 19:15:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jlw61', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he sanest, most reasonable method to all this is letting the market run its course.

Just like our Health Care system is. :razz:

While I have no intention of hi-jacking the thread, I can't let this one go.
The health care system is badly warped by government intervention. Look it up, government programs account for a very large proportion of payments for health care. Removing the government bureaucracy as a large payer would put downward pressure on prices.

Bringing in universal care would enable the govt to act as WalMart does and pressure producers to provide the cheapest possible goods, services and pharmecueticals. If they refuse the govt. can tell them to go get stuffed. That's what the Canadian plan does with big pharma.
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Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing

Unread postby eastbay » Sun 20 Apr 2008, 19:31:42

People generally still have no clue.

We have friends who live a mile or so from us. The guy calls me a week ago asking me to tell him all about our economy car because he found one like ours used and wanted to make an offer.

I've been ranting away about peak oil with him for about a year now, btw, so I was really surprised what happened next!

I ran into his wife at my daughters clarinet solo yesterday and I asked her if they bought the economy car. She said no, they're getting a truck instead because they're buying a bigger boat and need the power of a large pick-up to tow the larger boat.

I know they use their current boat about 5 times a year.

This is what we're up against.
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Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing

Unread postby threadbear » Sun 20 Apr 2008, 19:33:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 'P')eople generally still have no clue.
We have friends who live a mile or so from us. The guy calls me a week ago asking me to tell him all about our economy car because he found one like ours used and wanted to make an offer.
I've been ranting away about peak oil with him for about a year now, btw, so I was really surprised what happened next!
I ran into his wife at my daughters clarinet solo yesterday and I asked her if they bought the economy car. She said no, they're getting a truck instead because they're buying a bigger boat and need the power of a large pick-up to tow the larger boat.
I know they use their current boat about 5 times a year.
This is what we're up against.

It's kind of Darwinian, isn't it?
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Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing

Unread postby Cashmere » Sun 20 Apr 2008, 19:45:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Andy Capp, AKA Vision Master', '"')The most costly Healthcare system is what we have in the USA & we are ranked 37th from the top. Horse-shit my friend."

Just to be Clear.

Andy Capp is the resident Marxist here.

And I do mean MARXIST.

The kind who will, till the day he dies, believe that ANYBODY making 1$ more than the average citizen is getting over on everybody somehow somewhere.

He, starkly, reminds me of my mother-in-law, who immigrated from one of the long-time socialist European countries.

It got to the point where I couldn't even listen to her.

Prices going up on food? Must be Monsanto and Big Agi sticking it to the little guy.

Health insurance a bother? If we only had the European system . . .

Minimum wage stuck at 5.50? It's the CEO's each personally shitting on the little guy to keep him down.

You want to know about Andy Capp? All you need to do is consider his retort to the poster who related the anecdote about his trailer park neighbor blowing money on smokes, losery tickets, beer, gas for his big pick up.

Andy Capp, the Marxist, responded with, "the guy just wants to have a little fun with the <i>little bit</i> of money he gets each week."

You see how insidious that is? This is why Marxism is such a plague.

In one simple comment, Andy Capp both 1) excuses all of the man's bad behaviors that have <b>caused</b> his poverty, and 2) places the blame on the man's employer, who clearly is paying the man very little.

It's insidious.

Worse, it sounds very compelling to those in the swelling ranks of the "poor".

As their ranks grow, they will all be looking for the big excuse as to why they have lost what they had.

I won't matter. Which of them will want to get both barrels from me?

"You eat too much, you waste your money on cigarettes, booze, gambling, your status truck. You're not a very good worker. You give it a 1/2 ass effort while you're there, you're out of shape, you don't give a shit about the company, and you call out way too much."

Who wants to hear that?

Nobody.

What they'll want to hear is little Andy Capp, who will slyly tell them, "it's not your fault. You're not paid enough. And hey, you're just trying to have a little fun when you go out and waste 30 bucks on booze and smokes 3 times a week. It's the company owners and the "rich people" who have done this to you.

And if the ranks of the "poor" swell sufficiently, then Andy Capp will get his way, and he'll get another Marxist revolution.

But then what?

It's the same every time, folks.

They'll tax the rich, which means anybody making a decent living, and they will bleed the system to critical condition for a few decades or more.

But at some point, as it always does, natural selection takes over and the hard workers will again rise, and the Andy Capps of the world will have to let them, because even the donkey shit eaters who will follow a monster like Andy Capp will eventually get tired of having less than nothing. And when that time comes, they will allow the harder working folks to rebuild it, without fatal taxation or restriction.

Rinse and repeat, ad infinitum.

Universal health care?

Health care is great in Canada?

All I have to say about Canada is this:
A guy needed surgery a few years back and the waiting list was so long that he sued the government for his right to pay for and use his own health insurance.

Mind you, he didn't want to deprive anybody of their "universal health care" - he just wanted his own.

But because Canada is run by Andy Capps, the law there used to be that they'd put a gun to your head and march you off to jail if you tried to set up and use your own health care/insurance. They give you all kinds of rationalization as to why they do this, but the real reason is because it's more important to make sure that no one has <i>better</i> health care than it is to ensure that everybody has good health care.

So he sued.

It went to the Supreme Court of Canada last summer or the one before . . .

And he won.

When a guy has to go to the Supreme Court to get the right to obtain a required surgery because it's taking far too long on the official government plan, that tells you that the system is garbage.

No thanks on that.

But it won't matter in the end.

Government is a cancer, and there is no treatment available at this point - so Govt will grow and grow and Andy Capp will get his way.

And "democracy" will continue for a little while longer.

It's funny. Between the elitists and the Marxists, I'm much more afraid of the Marxists - at least the elitists will let me out-compete the idiot in the trailer park described above - Andy Capp won't even let me have that.
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Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Sun 20 Apr 2008, 20:05:32

Rationing? Bring it on!

I'll be in line every day with a gas can in hand. Then I would be selling my wares a block down the street for $10/gallon, no line. 8)

Every rationing scheme in human history has created a black market. Look at Iraq for God's sake.

We subsidize gasoline for Iraqis and they drive it over to Syria for sale at a 500% markup.

On the plus side, one could argue that we've created jobs. :roll:

Anyone who supports gas rationing doesn't understand economics.
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Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing

Unread postby jlw61 » Sun 20 Apr 2008, 22:16:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jlw61', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he sanest, most reasonable method to all this is letting the market run its course.

Just like our Health Care system is. :razz:

While I have no intention of hi-jacking the thread, I can't let this one go.
The health care system is badly warped by government intervention. Look it up, government programs account for a very large proportion of payments for health care. Removing the government bureaucracy as a large payer would put downward pressure on prices.

Bringing in universal care would enable the govt to act as WalMart does and pressure producers to provide the cheapest possible goods, services and pharmecueticals. If they refuse the govt. can tell them to go get stuffed. That's what the Canadian plan does with big pharma.

I knew responding to an off topic remark from the famous Vison-Master was a bad idea. He almost never gives a link to back up any of his wild claims. This thread is about gas rationing... I suggest we stop arguing about healthcare. VM, if you want to start a topic about Healthcare, go for it, I'll be glad to point out your mistakes.
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Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing

Unread postby Ludi » Sun 20 Apr 2008, 22:23:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'T')hat's a recipe for a violent revolution.

Really? When? At what price would violent revolution start?

I'm still not convinced of violent revolution in the US.
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Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing

Unread postby catbox » Sun 20 Apr 2008, 22:28:34

I always thought that once rationing starts, only the rich will be driving anyway. Those who are still driving will make easy targets. I don't expect people to behave in a civil way when their vehicles are sidelined.

As with everything I spout these days, I hope I'm wrong.


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Re: Lets say a national emergency resulted in gas rationing

Unread postby Cashmere » Sun 20 Apr 2008, 22:38:51

Wow. I went to this Wikipedia link, which was posted by someone above . . .

WikiLink

I then started reading.

About 2 paragraphs in, I get to the claim that, "Americans overwhelmingly cite medical bills as the cause for bankruptcy."

Wow, i think, that doesn't seem right.

So I investigate further and I follow the helpfully cited link provided.

And it goes to this paper . . .


ARandomPaper


So the first thing I see is that the study concluded that "53%" of bankruptcy filers cite medical reasons as the cause of filing.

Well, I edited the wiki entry, because no fool thinks that "53%" is "overwhelmingly."

So then I keep reading the paper, and it turns out that, included in the 53% is anybody who cited any of the following . . .

IsThisWeakOrWhat


When I saw, "lost at least 2 weeks of work related income due to illness . . ."

What a joke.

If you declared bankruptcy because you missed 2 weeks of work for what ever reason, your financial problems go well beyond medical care.

Idiot Marxist Sociologists producing pseudo-science for citation by idiot Marxist Wikieditors who are then cited by (not here) other Marxists, who eventually convince everyone to get universal health care passed, which will result in the improvement of health care for 15% of Americans, the status quo for 15%, and a substantial lowering of quality for the remaining 70%.

And which will, no doubt, increase the bankruptcy rate.

Provide Universal Health Care and . . .
remove yet another incentive to work.
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