[Revi]

In a lot of places in Haiti they eat clay with a little bit of sugar flavoring in it. It fills the belly, and simulates food.

http://www.newsday.com/business/ny-wopr ... ss-big-pix

"Today, Haiti is a place so poor that its most desperate citizens eat pancakes made of boullion-flavored clay and one in 10 children works as a domestic in conditions that human rights groups liken to slavery. It is a land so lawless that two-thirds of its 45 leaders have been violently ousted." From the article above.


Haiti is just the worst of the ravaged places that most people live in. Read Mike Davis's books to get a feel for the places where most of humanity tries to live.

The problem with these people is that they don't have any money. Therefore it makes no sense to sell anything to them. If they happen to have anything that is of use to us, that's a different story. If we have clothes to sew, or they happen to be sitting on any useful minerals, we'll figure out a way to get them into the system.

Poverty is hard to take.

Maybe we should let them starve. That would teach them a lesson.

What is the lesson?

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', ' ')

What is the lesson?

[Pretorian]

''''Dumas Antenor, a 54-year-old father of 14, said just one can of rice costs a fifth of the US$4 (euro2.50) he earns on a good day loading group taxis in the hills above Port-au-Prince.

"I hope that one day I'll see rice go back down at least 10 gourdes (26 cents; 16 euro cents) and I will be able to feed my kids at least two meals a day," he said.''''

[bodigami]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'D')omusAlbion that is so much absolute nonsense. Of course we could save them but we choose not to. Our economy would fail if we chose good rather than war. The wealthy that benefit lie, manipulate, steal and we listen and it goes on. Pathetic.

We have been trained to believe that we are in competition, to equate toys with happiness, to isolate ourselves behind our walls and TV's. For all it's faults, true Christian doctrine understands that giving rather than getting brings true happiness. Strength in truth. Strength in generosity. Strength is enlightened self interest.

[bodigami]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lumpy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DomusAlbion', 'L')umpy, your post was a great story and to the point. Our compassion over the last 60 years has led to increased pain now and in the future.

[Magus]

Nice little doomer fest we have going on here.

There seems to be the implicit assumption that the Haitians brought this famine upon themselves...but is that really the case? How did Haiti become so fucked up in the first place, when neighboring Cuba, under heavy trade sanctions from the Untied States for years, has managed to survive fairly well?

I intend to do a little research into this now, as I admittedly have never looked very much into Haitian affairs. Didn't the good ol' US of A screw around there a few times in the past century? Might that have something to do with it? Just speculating...

While it might seem well and good to say "Hey, I got to look out for my own, can't waste my resources on freeloaders!" it does strike me as a somewhat short-sided perspective (and not to mention somewhat...oh perish the thought...cruel?).

I mean, how many times can you turn your back on fellow human beings before they figure out your game, and then decide to return you the favor when you end up in the same situation? Invoke natural law, if you must. But is this really the kind of attitude that you want to become commonplace? More importantly, is it truly just?

Frighteningly, some of those here will probably say yes to this question. Others will simply say that there is no choice; it is the reality that we have to except.

I think that there is a choice. I think that we should always strive to help our fellow human beings, our precious world. Someone had a chain of responsibility above that went something to the extent of my family > my planet. My belief is complete opposite. Didn't someone say "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one?" Sadly, I think this sentiment is not shared amongst very many people.

Sorry if I'm drifting off subject here, but this placid acceptance of the starvation of an entire nation, somehow, just doesn't sit well with me. I suppose somebody will jump up and say that I'm making a personal value judgment here. Well, it's one I'm probably going to bloody well keep, unless you can somehow convince me that every single one of those Haitians are somehow less worthy of life than your own ass. Giving those statistical odds, I'd say no.

Instead, why doesn't someone here at least attempt to posit an idea to help those people for a change? Shipping them out of the country seems like a better solution, then just leaving them all to die. Or do you truly not care at all?

Someone made a thread here about a "monkeysphere" that people have where they cannot be assed to help anyone beyond their own immediate friends, family and associates. Does that not strike you as somewhat pathetic, despite any rationalizations to the contrary? Has thousands of years of human cooperation and construction of society really led us to this?

It seems farcical, but at this very moment I can hear in my mind the voice of a certain imaginary character born of the mind of Charles Dickens:

If they all must die, then they had better do it, and decrease the SURPLUS POPULATION!

Seems to me to be a sad state of affairs when one is reduced to agreeing with that statement.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Magus', ' ')How did Haiti become so fucked up in the first place, when neighboring Cuba, under heavy trade sanctions from the Untied States for years, has managed to survive fairly well?

[jupiters_release]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Magus', '
')There seems to be the implicit assumption that the Haitians brought this famine upon themselves...

[Jenab6]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Magus', 'N')ice little doomer fest we have going on here.

There seems to be the implicit assumption that the Haitians brought this famine upon themselves...but is that really the case? How did Haiti become so fucked up in the first place, when neighboring Cuba, under heavy trade sanctions from the Untied States for years, has managed to survive fairly well?

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Magus', ' ')Shipping them out of the country seems like a better solution, then just leaving them all to die. Or do you truly not care at all?

[HEADER_RACK]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')nstead, why doesn't someone here at least attempt to posit an idea to help those people for a change?

[Magus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jenab6', 'I')t's not our business to save their saints (though, to tell the truth, I'd not expect to find many) any more than their sinners. I'm not going to set myself up in judgment over the Haitians and try to tell the better from the worse. I'm certainly not going to approve of their being mass transshipped to the United States. The Haitians took from the French their very best colony, slaughtering their former masters to the last pregnant woman and baby. All at once, the fertile bounty of that matchless land was theirs, to make of it whatever they would. And now we know what happened. I don't want those people ever to have the chance to do to my land what they did to that one. They have fouled their nest. I'm not buying them another.
Jerry Abbott

[pup55]

http://peakoil.com/fortopic36052.html

We had the above conversation on this awhile back, and reached the same sad conclusion we have reached with other places.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')I feel sorry for the people in the Dominican Republic. They inhabit the same island, but are slightly better off. 848 people per square km, slightly better off in infant mortality, and slightly less poor, population rate about 1.5%, better off, but not much. Can you guess what is going to happen?

[Magus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'M')agus, please pm me your address, I will find you closest homeless Haitian or two who are in need of housing. I am more than positive that they will have family in Haiti, so you can start sending them money now, while you will be sponosoring their immigrant visas. So, how many can you accomodate? Would you take a loan to enlarge your house, so you can help to as many as you can?

[big_rc]

Magus.

Jenab6 and Pretorian are idiot trolls. Don't feed the trolls.

[Magus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('big_rc', 'M')agus. Jenab6 and Pretorian are idiot trolls. Don't feed the trolls.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Magus', 'N')o. Did you really expect me to agree to your ridiculous proposition? Why is it that, when I suggest to help someone, you would raise this idea of me helping someone to freeload? Do you think I'm that stupid?

[Tyler_JC]

Fortunately, the Coast Guard is well funded. I think the overwhelming majority of the boats will be turned around.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Magus', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('big_rc', 'M')agus.Jenab6 and Pretorian are idiot trolls. Don't feed the trolls.

[bodigami]

Pretorian, care to provide proof that this forum has 19200 USAmericans?

you're such a pathetic troll, it's starting to become boring.