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Feral cats

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Feral cats

Unread postby Brokaws-area » Fri 28 Dec 2007, 18:55:49

The thing that took care of our feral cat population problem, ILP, was an influx of coyotes. No more cats, and very few rabbits. They also eat up all the roadkill every night, no more squashed possums in the road for days on end. Unfortunately, they also destroy populations of ground nesting birds like turkey, pheasant, and quail.

Although the coyotes are native to our continent, they are newcomers to this neck of the woods, a niche being left by local hunters destroying most of the large predators like red wolf, bobcat, and eastern cougar. These guys would've taken care of your feral cats in a heartbeat.

And forget trying to lure a coyote into a havaheart. They're much too smart.
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Re: Feral cats

Unread postby Brokaws-area » Fri 28 Dec 2007, 19:08:23

B.W. regarding bacterial and viral loads of cats: While taking my wildlife rehabilitation class, the instructor told us to forget trying to save any bird that had been caught by a cat. Even if the skin is not broken, the bacteria from the cat's mouth, combined with shock, will kill the bird.
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Re: Feral cats

Unread postby I_Like_Plants » Fri 28 Dec 2007, 21:51:31

Coyotes are native to here, and the ones I have seen are beautiful, fat and sleek and sassy. I always wish them good hunting and hope they get plenty of cats and little yappy dogs.

Cat bites are indeed serious, they're kind of like being injected with the shit off the floor of a bus station bathroom, but a bit dirtier. :x

Some nice trapping ideas on YouTube, havaharts work well it seems and a person can make a trap too, cheaper that way, with a spring sliding door.
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Re: Feral cats

Unread postby jboogy » Sat 29 Dec 2007, 05:32:28

Presenting thespian extrordinaire and all around cat-hater I.L.Plants in a scene from his critically acclaimed role as Spartan dude in the major motion picture 300.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPVDq5r_ ... re=related
Perhaps the population would be less swayed to socialism if we had fewer examples of socialism from our "Free Market Capitalists". -----fiddler dave
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Re: Feral cats

Unread postby jboogy » Sat 29 Dec 2007, 05:34:52

Presenting thespian extrordinaire and all around cat-hater I.L.Plants in a scene from his critically acclaimed role as Spartan dude in the major motion picture 300.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPVDq5r_ ... re=related
Perhaps the population would be less swayed to socialism if we had fewer examples of socialism from our "Free Market Capitalists". -----fiddler dave
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Re: Feral cats

Unread postby yeahbut » Sat 29 Dec 2007, 05:55:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cornelian', '
')
However, the feral cat problem was created by people. Do we address the cat problem first, or the people problem which causes it? I find it interesting that people seem to focus their hate on the victims of humanity's sins, rather than on the perpetrators.

Hatred directed towards the victims of our own behaviour, I think, is always driven by a sense of deep self-failure and self-loathing.


This just might be the smartest post in this thread, IMHO. Just about any problem of introduced plant or animal species is the direct result of human actions. To think that humans can make it better again is just another example of our shameful hubris. What is the possibility of all your poisoning, trapping and shooting in terms of actually eradicating the introduced species(in this case, cats)? Nil, I am quite sure. If that is the case, what is all the killing for?

In the long term, non-human time scale, equilibrium will be re-established and all the plants and animals we have introduced all over the world will be part of balanced ecosystems once more. We won't get to see it, and no doubt it will involve lots of extinctions(and the evolution of new species), but there's nothing we can do about that. Killing a few cats won't do anything but postpone the natural readjustment that must occur.

Don't get me wrong, I am not opposed to the killing of animals for food, I've done a fair bit of that. Nor am I opposed to killing pest species if there is the possibility of total eradication(as has happened on some offshore islands here in NZ). If it's just cos you don't like em, or cos you like another species better, well maybe it's that kind of thinking that got us in this bloody mess in the first place.
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Re: Feral cats

Unread postby I_Like_Plants » Sat 29 Dec 2007, 13:33:07

Load of crap, Yeahbut, load of crap.

Cats piss on our doorstep, crap in our yard, eat our birds, spread hair everywhere, and besides......

They're FUN to kill. :razz:
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Re: Feral cats

Unread postby AWPrime » Sat 29 Dec 2007, 13:35:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlisteredWhippet', 'i')n fact, this is the trap:
http://www.biconet.com/traps/tincat.html
$15, caught 1000s of mice (and one pissed off ferret-ermine thing), zero ongoing resource inputs, zero environmental/ecological impact.
That looks like a good trap, but like all traps it will only get a percentage of the rodents.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')o you have any clues that point to a plague of cats?
Heres my thinking: first off, there are no facilities for spaying & neutering, food storage technology is very primitive, modern/effective traps not widely used, no animal control authority, personal pets were probably economically unlikely, and so forth.
They were basically native there, so we can assume a natural balance.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')id those sissies get their immune systems from the discount bin? Also you do know that a human bite is more dangerous?
We're not talking about biting humans. Research on cat-killed birds show that the birds rarely die from the bite, they die from a massive secondary infection that overwhelms the bird's immune system. Cats incubate a whole array of super-bacteria. Its an evolutionary advantage. They can deliver a good bite and then stalk the animal until its overcome with infection.
Actually a human bite can also kill birds and have a high risk of causing sepsis in other humans. But most birds don't die of the bacteria but of the physical shock of being captured.
Strong oral bacteria are a common thing in predators, and is hardly ever used as a means of capture, except by reptiles.

Thus if you are bitten by a predator (including humans) you have a risk of getting an infection. The size of the risk is usually determined by your own immune system. I have had multiple bites and scratches and I never needed more then a bandage.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')eres some interesting reading:
Centers for Disease Control: Cats carriers of Human Plague

That article might not exist anymore, the link won't work and I can't find it. But I have done some searching and basically every mammal is a potential carrier. And both still rely of fleas. which can be managed.
If you want to remove all the risk from getting diseases from animals, then you need to remove every animal from the human habitat.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')o for responsible owners there is hardly any risk. Any local bums are more likely to be a disease vector, should be shoot them?
Actually this is inaccurate. The similarity between human immune systems is a bonus.Actually it isn't, most diseases have trouble crossing species.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')or example, the bum and you both likely have antibodies against some forms of influenza. Neither of you are likely to be carrying a superlative infectious organism.Human can also carry fleas, and a bite/scratch can transfer sepsis, hepatitis, rabies, syphilis, ect.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e are currently speeding headlong into a period of time where evolved super-bugs and infectious parasites are making inroads into human populations.And we will evolve with them.
Fighting technobabble and Woo Woos.

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Re: Feral cats

Unread postby AWPrime » Sat 29 Dec 2007, 14:30:09

That is nothing new, all deep bites have a higher risk of causing serious infections.

Odds are that you just got very lucky with that monkey.
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Re: Feral cats

Unread postby TWilliam » Sat 29 Dec 2007, 15:06:47

I was remembering back in ancient times when I had taken first aid training that the issue is less about bites and more about deep puncture wounds. Basically if it penetrates completely thru the skin then it's a high potential risk for infection because our primary defense barrier has been compromised, and because puncture wounds tend not to bleed profusely, which means reduced flushing of any potential bacterial invaders.

Any puncture wound is potentially serious, whether from an animal bite, a nail, honey locust thorn, etc. Anyone else here remember tetanus shots?
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Re: Feral cats

Unread postby Twilight » Sat 29 Dec 2007, 17:36:17

I have to say, the cat bite thread was a forum highlight, a good example of genuinely useful knowledge.

I have been to places where stray-anything that comes wandering in gets shot, just as common sense policy. You can see why. Funnily enough, they are a whole lot more sustainable than suburbia, where the beasts are temporarily tamed and artificially concentrated. It's all very well saying humans are the problem, but we are a problem that would like to hang around all the same, if you see what I mean. And that means being prepared to deal with legacy issues.
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Re: Feral cats

Unread postby PeakOiler » Sat 29 Dec 2007, 17:45:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')y cat is fat
So now I'll dine
And eat all up
This cat of mine.

--Unknown

Seriously, living in the country where field mice abound is the reason I own a couple of cats. When I first moved into this house over 10 years ago, there were indications of mice, but the cats soon took care of that. Haven't seen a mouse in the house since then. They've earned their keep...
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Re: Feral cats

Unread postby AWPrime » Sat 29 Dec 2007, 18:17:15

Shannymara, I have read the link. It is just that it isn't exceptional, heck a reptile bite is often worse. So as TWilliam has said, seek treatment if one get deep puncture wounds, no matter what the species.
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