[Pixie]

Seattle has an active alternative living scene and there are a wide variety of cooperative living arrangements available - so, if you want to live WITH people, you can probably find a place and group that works for you.

Options include non-profit corporations that own and run houses, co-housing (groups of private homes with common facilities), groups of friends who share food and consider themselves cooperative, and a shared-income commune.

This list of cooperative residences focuses on different types of urban, shared households. There are also Seattle-area Cohousing options available.

http://seattle.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_c ... residences

If you want to find communal living options in your community, do a google search for "communal living" and then the name of your town. Or another good search is "urban housing cooperative" and the name of your town.

[Tanada]

Did you know that before and during WW II the average American lived with his parents and grandparents in one modestly crowded house or apartment? It was not until the housing boom in 1946 when returning masses of ex-military did not want to live with their extended families any longer that the concept of the 'nuclear' family came into being. Most men were no longer willing to put up with the inconveniences of living with their parents and/or syblings.

What they did not relize was that the inconveniences also came with benefits. Grandparents were able to supply in home child care allowing both parents to work. Multiple incomes streaming into the home meant that less work hours were needed to supply nessecities for all. If someone became ill the extended family could supply help without dirupting other aspects of family life.

What we as a society gave up in 1946 was not worth the freedom it brought IMO.

[Ludi]

I grew up in a household with 2 children, 2 parents, and a grandmother in the same house. To me, it seemed like a great thing, because I loved my Gramma.

[stepka]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hink global, act local. Set an example. People will follow your example when they feel it makes sense to them, and not a moment sooner.

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('stepka', 'I') met some people who were literally peeing in a hole in their yard

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('stepka', '.')..And I'd like to add--make it look like you're having fun if you can. I know several hippie types who've taken to the woods, powered down to the point where they're socially unacceptable, and then taken a hard judgemental attitude towards everyone else. It doesn't make people want to follow their example. ...

[DavidFolks]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '
')A yuppie in Seattle:
Americans should increase taxes on gasoline by a great amount to pay for public transit. The Europeans are doing things the right way.

My response:
The point of environmentalism is to transition away from fossil fuels NOT to become more dependent on it, but if you tax gasoline that technically makes you financially dependent on gasoline! Furthermore the more you tax gasoline the more financially dependent you become on it right?

[Pixie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('stepka', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hink global, act local. Set an example. People will follow your example when they feel it makes sense to them, and not a moment sooner.

[Pixie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '[')
A yuppie in Seattle:
Americans should increase taxes on gasoline by a great amount to pay for public transit. The Europeans are doing things the right way.

My response:
The point of environmentalism is to transition away from fossil fuels NOT to become more dependent on it, but if you tax gasoline that technically makes you financially dependent on gasoline! Furthermore the more you tax gasoline the more financially dependent you become on it right?

their response:
*unhappy face* The discussion forever ended there. Some people just can't handle a debate no matter how polite you may be.

[Pixie]

Here is another practical powerdown idea. This is for those of you that don't want to share your house or downsize to a smaller house, and its purpose is more to do with preparing for emergencies.

YOu fit the profile for this idea if you a) have a large house and b) heat it with heating oil, propane, natural gas or electricity.

Question: Do you have a wood stove or wood burning fireplace? Pellet stoves do not count, nor do natural gas inserts. It has to burn cord wood.

If not, what do you do for heat when the power fails and your fuel source runs out.

Solution: Get a wood stove and install it in your house as a backup heat source. It doesn't need to be a large one. Find one rated for 400-800 square feet ( 40-80 square meters) install it in a section of the house that can be isolated, and then insulate your interior walls around that section of the house. In the event of running out of heating oil, propane or whatever, you sacrifice the rest of the house to the cold, but at least you don't freeze to death. Freezing to death in the winter will be a major vector of die-off early on. Make sure it is a highly efficient wood stove, and don't try to heat that entire 2200 sq ft home. Fire wood will also be a limited resource quite soon into the crisis.

Question for the europeans in the room: Some of you have already faced this crisis, right? Russia cut off your natural gas in the middle of winter: what did you do to stay warm in your house?

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pixie', '.')..
Depends on the purpose of the tax.

[stepka]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')uerilla gardening. I have a friend in Seattle who catalogs all the fruit trees hanging over the street in her neighborhood. Common practice in Seattle is that if it hangs over the sidewalk or the street, it is public access. She's got a list of some 100 different varieties she can pick, and what season to seek them out.

[dohboi]

Cube, in theory you could dedicate all taxes on gas (or liquor, gambling, tobacco...) to educating the public about the problems associated with using said commodity and the alternatives available. This could potentially work as what is actually called a "governor" in mechanical engineering--the more use, the more the mechanism is triggered to modify and reduce the use.

In practice, you are probably right that the government will generally find any such pools of cash just too tempting.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dohboi', 'C')ube, in theory you could dedicate all taxes on gas (or liquor, gambling, tobacco...) to educating the public about the problems associated with using said commodity and the alternatives available. This could potentially work as what is actually called a "governor" in mechanical engineering--the more use, the more the mechanism is triggered to modify and reduce the use.

[LoneSnark]

Well, they don't want it to end anyway, so that would not be changing anything.

[Ludi]

So, how's the plan going, folks?


You'd think people would be more interested in discussion "the solution."

[Revi]

I just went to a meeting of truckers who are tired of high fuel prices and want to do something about it. They are not aware of peak oil at all and are not happy about what's happening. It really opened my eyes. They didn't want to hear about conservation at all. Tom Allen talked about the increased CAFE standards. They wanted to blame it on enviros and greenies. This does not bode well for the rest of society. They won't want to work on a solution. They just want someone to blame it on.

http://bangornews.com/news/t/midmaine.a ... zoneid=182

[Ludi]

Do you find those attitudes to be something which can't be changed?


Is it pointless to talk about solutions at all?


Give up?

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'I') just went to a meeting of truckers who are tired of high fuel prices and want to do something about it. They are not aware of peak oil at all and are not happy about what's happening. It really opened my eyes.

[stepka]

Not on your life Ludi. Food is a good place to start. If, oh if only, the food distribution network could be reworked and people educated, it would save so much oil, and those truckers could go back to farming and stop blaming the environmental "agenda" (whatever that may be--gee it is so selfish to want to save the planet). I am hearing more talk about eating local and I am trying to do that myself, but it is very difficult. Elsewhere in the world, people shop at farmers markets and street stalls for most of their food needs, but here, even the farmers market is suspect--meaning I'm not sure where the food came from. And then there is a food shop specializing in locally grown food, but it is quite a drive, as opposed to the three grocery stores (two of them organic) that are within walking distance. Anyways, those are the things I've been thinking about a lot. Start with the food. Well, and maybe move out of the 5-10,000 sq, ft. house!