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Re: Another Oil price Record

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Another Record

Postby Bas » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 05:56:00

Bas
 

Re: Another Record

Postby Carlhole » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 06:27:31

Let's see, we've got (1) a hugely weakening US dollar,
(2) institutional and hedge fund money moving away from the Ground Zero of the US mortgage meltdown and into other investments, (3) fear over conflicts in the Middle East,

How much of this is actually due to supply and demand considerations? I mean, that's what we here at PO.com are most interested in.

I've seen estimates that #1 above is about 30% of the price move from 1999. Is that right?

#2 could be $15 or so...

Are we watching a true Peak Oil driven market or an energy bubble?
Carlhole
 

Re: Another Record

Postby Starvid » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 06:41:01

No matter which is true, it will raise PO awareness in a huge way.

We had the ASPO chairman on TV a few days ago, on the evening news.

The voice over introduction: 5 years ago oil experts convened at Uppsala university and figured out oil was running out. The oil industry laughed at them, as oil would supposedly last for ever. But now 5 years later, no one is laughing. Fields are declining fast and the new ones found are too small to make a difference. In 5 years oil will peak and in 20 years the entire world will suffer from harsh oil shortages.

In Swedish, but still pretty understandable: http://tv4nyheterna.se/2.139?videoId=1.199571

Ends with the ominous:
- [in 2030 Norwegian oil] will be almost gone?
- It will be almost gone.
Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
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Re: Another Record

Postby yull » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 06:52:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'L')et's see, we've got (1) a hugely weakening US dollar,
(2) institutional and hedge fund money moving away from the Ground Zero of the US mortgage meltdown and into other investments, (3) fear over conflicts in the Middle East,

How much of this is actually due to supply and demand considerations? I mean, that's what we here at PO.com are most interested in.

I've seen estimates that #1 above is about 30% of the price move from 1999. Is that right?

#2 could be $15 or so...

Are we watching a true Peak Oil driven market or an energy bubble?


It's peak oil for sure. Production is only around 85.3 million barrels per day, demand 4Q 2007 is forecast to be 87.6. Quite a shortfall. Demand is simply outstripping supply.

The weakening dollar is a part of the recent price rises, but the vast majority of it is nothing to do with the dollar. This last 3 months the dollar has fallen around 7% but oil has increased 37%.

Supply is not meeting demand - that's the main factor.
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Re: Another Record

Postby Bas » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 07:23:19

$98.60 an hour ago (it's now back to $98,20)
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Re: Another Record

Postby whereagles » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 07:49:03

well, indonesian tapis is showing above $100 now

http://www.upstreamonline.com/market_da ... kets_crude
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Re: Another Record

Postby Carlhole » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 08:23:37

Where's the bubble?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MarketWatch', '[')b]Commentary: Oil and stocks can't both go up in tandem forever

It used to be taken as axiomatic that oil and equities moved inversely. As recently as five years ago, for example, an academic study found that an investor could have easily beaten a buy-and-hold in the stock market over the previous three decades by following a simple rule that calls for being out of stocks whenever oil, in the previous calendar month, rose by at least 5%.

And yet somebody forgot to refresh the stock market about this axiom. Though crude oil keeps barreling higher, fast closing in on the $100 mark, the stock market hardly seems unfazed. Tuesday was no exception: Crude oil futures rose 3% on the day, and yet, far from falling, the Dow Jones Industrial Average turned in a triple-digit gain.

It seems fair to say that these trends can't keep going forever.
But, if that's the case, which market is going to blink first - stocks or oil?

The nearly-universal consensus among the nearly 200 newsletters monitored by the Hulbert Financial Digest, as well as from investment-oriented blogs I read: Stock investors are in denial right now. Investors in the oil market, in contrast, are on solid ground.

But...


I'm wondering about this question because if oil stays above $90 for months and months, that would have much more serious economic consequences than if this were merely a short-term spike due to factors other than supply and demand. High gasoline prices will surely follow.

Back a few years, I made a prediction to a friend that gas would cost abot $4.50/gal by mid '07. I was proven wrong. But I based it on $100 oil and just kept the ratio of cost per barrel/cost per gallon the same.
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Re: Another Record

Postby Revi » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 10:35:48

Well we're not up to $100 yet, but we aren't too far away either:

http://www.bloomberg.com/energy/

Around $98 last time I looked.
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Re: Another Record

Postby morph » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 13:06:26

tapis blend is at $100.36!!
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Re: Another Record

Postby Bas » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 13:18:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Drifter', '[')b]Damn. Talk about volatility:

Image
8O


Ah yes, you always see that kind of volatility after the abstract of the inventory report comes out 11:30 EST, usually takes an hour for the market to return to normal; it's back to $97.60 now.
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Re: Another Record

Postby Starvid » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 14:31:53

Oil at only $96, it's cheeeeeap again! :-D
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Re: Another Record

Postby Armageddon » Wed 07 Nov 2007, 18:35:12

From CNN

While oil has been expected to test the $100 mark for several days, one analyst said crossing the psychologically important threshold may prove a challenge.

Many hedge funds bought when prices were around $80 a barrel, and many may want to cash out and take the $16 or $18 profit without waiting around to see if the $100 level can be broken, according to Peter Beutel, an oil analyst at Cameron Hanover.

"We certainly would not risk $16 or more for the last $2 or $3 a barrel," Beutel wrote in a research note. "Because of this, we have to expect to see a number of professional traders take profits before we actually see $100."

I figured $100.00 would have resistance due to this.
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Re: Another Record

Postby eastbay » Thu 08 Nov 2007, 00:41:53

Yeah. Resistance. Nice term.

Kinda like how magma faces resistance as it moves upwards.
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Re: Another Record

Postby Bas » Thu 08 Nov 2007, 07:48:51

it might "self propel" to $110 or so once we do break a 100 though.
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Re: Another Record

Postby DantesPeak » Thu 08 Nov 2007, 11:22:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Drifter', 'W')ell, that didn't last long. Oil is climbing again. $97.56


Explosion and fire reported at major US refinery, Port Arthur.
It's already over, now it's just a matter of adjusting.
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Re: Another Record

Postby whereagles » Thu 08 Nov 2007, 11:27:17

natural gas looks cheap now... hedge 5000 bucks of it on 10 years and you're bound to make a bucketload
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