[manu]

My arguement against cow killing is that when there are no more tractors to till the land, the bull does that job. The cow gives its milk, and combined with grains, fruits and vegatables one can live a healthy life. So post peak oil, people will begin to see their value. When the cow and bull die naturally, one can use their skin for shoes, ect. and eat the meat. If you do eat meat such as deer, pig, or fish, you should go and kill the animals yourself. In this way you can see that you are taking a life. Meat is tamasic, or mode of ignorance in nature so if you want to remain in ignorance then keep killing and eating animals.

[PhebaAndThePilgrim]

Good day from Pheba, from the farm:

I just finished reading the postings on becoming a vegetarian. My hubby and I raise beef cattle. (160 acre 30 head operation)
We have about 30 head of breeding cattle. Each year they have a calf beginning around April 1st. Spring and summer we usually have between 60 to as many as 75 head on the farm.
The mothers feed on grass with very little grain. In late fall we wean the calves. Weaning is done by separating the Mothers from the calves with several strong fences in between them.
The calves must be confined in a lot with an escape proof fence.
The mothers usually take the separation better than the calves.
Older calves are a drain on their mother's system, especially considering that the mothers are carrying another calf.
We immediately begin feeding a special feed to the calves.
The food we use is called Cattle Charge by MFA. the product is excellent. The calves love it, and the calves are immediately switched to an excellent nutritious diet.
We feed Cattle Charge for two weeks. Cattle Charge helps get the calves off to a good start.
At the end of the two week weaning period we have to make a decision.
Do we keep the calves, feed them out a few months, or sell them right away? We have to decide which option will make us more money.
Every year we then need to balance the cost of a bushel of corn against the cattle market.
The question we ask is; will we make more money feeding them or selling them.
This year was a no brainer. The big food giants, ADM, Cargill, etc. have been buying up corn futures like crazy for ethanol.
The price of a bushel of corn is going through the roof.
There was no way we could afford to keep the calves and feed them for a profit. So, we sold them two weeks after weaning.
The beef market was also down, so small beef farmers are not getting rich this year.
There are many other small farmers who ran into the same problem that we did.
Farmers that raise their own corn found it more profitable to sell the corn rather than keep it to feed to feeder cattle.
When a lot of farmers sell beef cattle at the same time, the market falls.
Right now cattle numbers are down a bit because so many farmers have sold cattle. Here in Missouri the southern part of the state has been in a drought situation for several years.
Hay shortages also contribute to cattle numbers being down.
Selling cattle is often more profitable than buying hay.
We raise our own hay, and this is going to be a very close year. We usually feed hay until the second week of April.
Last fall we began feeding very early because of the drought. We were feeding some hay in August.
We could not afford to purchase any synthetic nitrogen fertilizer last year so the hay crop was down by about 20 percent.
We don't need much nitrogen, we mostly use potash and phosphate, but they have gone up in price also.
I know this is all linked to petroleum.
I don't mean to prattle on with this, but it is important to make the connection between ethanol and beef.
I consider ethanol to be a sign of insanity.
Now, concerning grass fed cattle.
Hubby and I have been checking into it. Grass fed is what we work towards. We do intense pasture rotation, moving the cattle every few days in the summer to rotate pasture.
Almost all of the grass in Missouri is Kentucky K31 fescue. K31 is not a Missouri native. The grass was introduced decades ago and has taken over.
The grass is extremely difficult to eradicate. All a farmer can do is to learn how to manage it.
The good points of K31:
Nutritious, hardy, highest protein level late in the year, Nov. Dec.
Takes the heat well.
Bad point: K31 in Missouri is infected with an endophyte fungus that is hard on cattle, and very hard on horses.
We have our pastures in K31 with a mix of white clover, red clover, and a little lespedeza. We had a field of Timothy, but the K31 has taken it over these past few years. We also have 22 acres of Missouri native warm season Gamma grass. Gamma is a dicot like corn and grows in the worst Missouri heat.
Most Missouri farms are K31 with a bit of clover. We seed clover every few years. Clover seed is very expensive.
We keep nitrogen fertilizer low. Nitrogen feeds the K31. We use potash and phosphate to feed the clovers and lespedeza (Both legumes).
Now, here is the reason that the above information is important:
You can't raise beef cattle on K31 fescue alone. The cattle just won't grow big enough or fast enough to make any money.
Cattle grow way too slow on K31.
We are looking at ways to get around it, but K31 is what we are working with.
Hope this helps.
Take care.
Pheba, from the farm.

[Kingcoal]

Excellent post. Ethanol from corn is creating a crisis.

[nth]

I don't get this.
Don't ethanol facilities produce cattle feed byproduct?
Could you not get your hand on these?

[pip]

The distillers grains from ethanol are not a very good feed. Can be used in up to 10% of the feed ration I believe.

I heard a commodities analyst say last week that the US will be a corn importer by end of 2008 if all the proposed ethanol plants are built.

[nth]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pip', 'T')he distillers grains from ethanol are not a very good feed. Can be used in up to 10% of the feed ration I believe.

I heard a commodities analyst say last week that the US will be a corn importer by end of 2008 if all the proposed ethanol plants are built.

[nth]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gideon', 'I')nteresting post. Thanks.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')code]Gamma is a dicot like corn[quote][/code]

[seldom_seen]

Could Ned Ludd ever have imagined this?

Not only will machines take your job...they're now going after your lunch.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nth', 'O')h, only 10%?
I believe it is protein rich, filled with nitrogen.

[nth]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '
')
Cattle, who are ruminants, don't need a whole lot of protein in their diet. What they need is energy (carbs) and cellulose. The energy/carbs have been removed from the corn, as ethanol.

[Ludi]

You may be right, nth. As I understand it, corn is fed because it is a high-energy feed, with both carbs and protein, but, it would seem, if it is high in energy, would not the energy be converted to ethanol during processing?

This article http://agbiopubs.sdstate.edu/articles/ExEx2036.pdf. indicates nutrient content varies depending on the distiller product.



I admit to not being an expert on animal diets!

[nth]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nth', 'I')n that case, why are they being fed corn and not hay or other grass feed? I thought corn was preferred due to high nitrogen content.

[Loki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Phebagirl', 'I') consider ethanol to be a sign of insanity.

[MrMambo]

I expect that we will be forced to eat less meat, fish and poultry all over the world. The prices for theese products are low now.. but we are seeing that basic farm produce like grain and corn is going way up in price, this will eventually transform into higher animal prices.

The experience of this farmer, higher feeding prices -> having to put out a lot meat on the market early along with a lot of other farmers forcing a temporary market glut with low meat prices will cause a fall in meat production later on. And next year when grain and corn surges further upwards in price fewer farmers are able to feed up the same amount of cattle as earlier.

The fisheries around the world are being drained quicker than ever because few countries are good at regulating the fishing.

The paultry industry has the same basic problem as the beef industry.

I expect meet, fish and pultry to be something used for celebrations and not for every day nutrition for people in the industrialized part of the world, the way it already is for peple in the developing nations.

[PhebaAndThePilgrim]

Good day from Pheba, from the farm:
Goodness, Did I ever hear about this mistake. My hubby set me straight last night. Corn is a monocot. The plant only sends up one cotyledon when it sprouts. Clover is a dicot. The plant sends up two cotyledons or seed leaves when it sprouts.
I humbly apologize.
To the sarcastic person that stated that the farmer doesn't know what he is talking about; I am not the farmer, I am the farmer's wife. I know more about cooking it, than raising it. But, I know what I am seeing happening concerning peak oil, and ethanol.
My husband's correction went down easier than you folks.
At least when he corrected me, and told me I should know better, he called me sweetheart.
Of course, yesterday was Valentine's day, and he did forget to buy me a card. He was probably feeling a bit guilty. The cold was bitter, the cattle are suffering, and they come first. Also, the tractor threw a part, and we had to drive it over to the repair shop in the bitter cold. Ah, yes, the life of a farmer.
Many holidays are forgotten. There are many times he is late for a family meal. the cattle and the farm come first. That is the oath of the farmer/rancher. My husband takes his responsibility as a farmer seriously.
Of course, today is our wedding anniversary. Maybe I'll get lucky, and no disaster will happen today, and we can go out to dinner or something. Maybe, but I doubt it. We still have to go pick up the tractor. The temperature is 5 below zero. The cattle will need to be checked on, etc. etc. But, I knew this when I married him. I have been raised in farm country, and I understand the life of a farmer.
He is right. I should have known better about the dicot/monocot.
Pheba.

[Kingcoal]

If you care about greenhouse gases, you should become a vegetarian.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')ivestock are responsible for 18 percent of greenhouse-gas emissions as measured in carbon dioxide equivalent, reports the FAO. This includes 9 percent of all CO2 emissions, 37 percent of methane, and 65 percent of nitrous oxide. Altogether, that's more than the emissions caused by transportation.

[neocone]

We all need meat but roughly the size of a pack of cards every day... less than 100 grams.

Our teeth show a pattern where 10% of the diet has to be meat. Of course that's like a 4-5 time reduction compared to the typical amount a north american eats...

Almost same as being vegetarian.

[Clouseau2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('neocone', 'W')e all need meat but roughly the size of a pack of cards every day... less than 100 grams.

[Loki]

I posted this in another thread, but it's probably more appropriate here.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e conclude that a person consuming a mixed diet with the mean American caloric content and composition causes the emissions of 1485 kg CO2-equivalent above the emissions associated with consuming the same number of calories, but from plant sources. Far from trivial, nationally this difference amounts to over 6% of the total U.S. greenhouse gas emissions.

[align=center][/align]

Eshel, G. and P.A. Martin. 2006. Diet, Energy, and Global Warming. Earth Interactions, 10, 1-17.

Here's a synopsis of the paper.

[BastardSquad]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Clouseau2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('neocone', 'W')e all need meat but roughly the size of a pack of cards every day... less than 100 grams.