[dohboi]

Frankthetank asks:

"Why is pork so damn cheap?"

My understanding is cheap pork is the result of both enormous subsidies and huge factory-farmed feed lots--very, very polluting, but agribusiness will not be responsible for paying clean up costs.

Any one know how much sh** a pig produces?

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dohboi', 'F')rankthetank asks:

"Why is pork so damn cheap?"

My understanding is cheap pork is the result of both enormous subsidies and huge factory-farmed feed lots--very, very polluting, but agribusiness will not be responsible for paying clean up costs.

Any one know how much sh** a pig produces?

[PhebaAndThePilgrim]

Good day from Pheba From the farm:
I am so glad to be able to contribute to this web site with farm information. I am not an educated farmer like my husband, but I do see things happening around me.
Hubby has been investigating grass fed beef intensely for a few years now.
Here is some of what he has discovered.
You need a very high quality grass to raise grass fed cattle.
We do not have that quality of grass. Most of Missouri does n ot have that quality of grass.
Missouri is mostly K31 fescue. I have written about fescue in the past. Not a good pasture for grass fed beef.
Grass fed beef has a much much slower growth rate than corn fed beef.
Grass fed beef is lean, and not heavily marbled. A person has to actually chew grass fed beef to consume it. This is something the American beef consumer just does not like, and will not purchase.
That being said, we are still going to try grass fed beef on a limited basis.
All of our mama cows are grass fed. We give them mineral, and a protein supplement, and they exist on grass/hay. They do very well. The whole ideal behind a cow/calf operation is to let the land support the breed cow. Young animals, beef animals, and breeding bulls get some corn as a supplement.
Last year a 3,000 sow hog operation began 3 miles southeast of us. Now they are putting in another one northwest of us.
One way or another it looks like we are in for a world of hurt.
I am not so concerned with the smell. I am concerned with how it is going to contaminate our water supply.
As far as moving to a different area is concerned, I don't think it makes a difference. When TSHTF I don't think it will matter much where a person lives. it's going to be bad.
Also, with where I see us heading in the next couple of years, I don't think the hog operations will stay operating for very long.
Especially considering what ethanol is doing to corn prices.
That's just the way I see it, from the farm. Pheba

[ACrisisAwaits]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('manu', 'M')y arguement against cow killing is that when there are no more tractors to till the land, the bull does that job. The cow gives its milk, and combined with grains, fruits and vegatables one can live a healthy life. So post peak oil, people will begin to see their value. When the cow and bull die naturally, one can use their skin for shoes, ect. and eat the meat. If you do eat meat such as deer, pig, or fish, you should go and kill the animals yourself. In this way you can see that you are taking a life. Meat is tamasic, or mode of ignorance in nature so if you want to remain in ignorance then keep killing and eating animals.

[sirrom]

When oil becomes so expensive that most people can't afford to use it to heat their homes,many people are going to turn to wood to keep their houses warm.
The problem is that in alot of place,there are not alot of trees left for people to cut down and once all the trees have gone,people will have to do without heating or just start burning books or furniture,but eventually that will run out.

The reason i'm saying this is that without fire there is going to be no way for people to cook meat(i'm assuming here that the electrical grid has collapsed and gas is also very expensive). Without anyway to cook the meat this will mean that keeping animals for meat is completly pointless. Once people get rid of the animals, they will use the land to grow things like vegatables and fruit and anything that they can eat raw.
For those of you who do not know, growing crops is a much more efficient use of land,water and energy. so with all the animals gone this means we will be able to produce more food and more people will survive.(providing they live in a temperate climate,like the UK,and don't need heating).

This is the reason why i think that peak oil is a good thing(no more animal murder).

[TheTurtle]

You do realize that the bulk of daily calories that most people consume comes from grains and that grains require cooking? Right?

[Fishman]

Oh Darn you Turtle! You keep bringing up reality. How's a vegan to argue with that?

Sorry Sirrom, animals in the pre oil times were uses as beasts of burden, transport, conversion of non arable land to food, and it will be that way in the future also.
PS meats a lot easier to cook than grains

[Twilight]

Once energy shortages seriously interfere with meat production, everything that moves and breathes will die. It will only be a matter of time. We are going to hunt every source of protein to extinction.

[jbeckton]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sirrom', 'W')hen oil becomes so expensive that most people can't afford to use it to heat their homes,many people are going to turn to wood to keep their houses warm.
The problem is that in alot of place,there are not alot of trees left for people to cut down and once all the trees have gone,people will have to do without heating or just start burning books or furniture,but eventually that will run out.
The reason i'm saying this is that without fire there is going to be no way for people to cook meat(i'm assuming here that the electrical grid has collapsed and gas is also very expensive). Without anyway to cook the meat this will mean that keeping animals for meat is completly pointless. Once people get rid of the animals, they will use the land to grow things like vegatables and fruit and anything that they can eat raw.
For those of you who do not know, growing crops is a much more efficient use of land,water and energy. so with all the animals gone this means we will be able to produce more food and more people will survive.(providing they live in a temperate climate,like the UK,and don't need heating).
This is the reason why i think that peak oil is a good thing(no more animal murder).

[Blacksmith]

Your excercise today show you accept it will be to check out all the available food sources within 100 km or 60 miles. In a post oil senario that what your diet will be. Transportation of meat will revert to the old cattle drive, try eating your shoes to see how tough the meat will be.

[fecteau]

Cooking will not be the main reason people should eat a mostly vegetarian diet in post oil. It takes ten time the energy to produce a gram of protein from beef than to produce it from soy. In fact the planet cannot support the current population on a western diet.
Once the oil and the fishes (ocean depletion is under way faster than oil depletion) are gone, people will have some hard choices.
Fortunately, we can live nicely on very tasty vegetarian dishes. People will get use to it.

[fecteau]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Blacksmith', 'Y')our excercise today show you accept it will be to check out all the available food sources within 100 km or 60 miles. In a post oil senario that what your diet will be. Transportation of meat will revert to the old cattle drive, try eating your shoes to see how tough the meat will be.

[Bas]

ten times the energy.....depends. It certainly does require ten times as much arable land, something we are already starting to be short of and which we will be dramatically short of if crop yields start to fall and the world's population keeps on growing. And before you say that crop yields falling would be in favor of meat production; animal feed crop yields will fall too. All in all, food will become much more expensive in the future and I expect that in the long term meat will only be for the rich or for a special occasion.

[Blacksmith]

[quote="fecteau Most of France train network is nuclear powered and can transport food large distances economically.[/quote]

Toronto is a long way from France

[Blacksmith]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SpringCreekFarm', 'F')arm animals raised under the conditions of industrial agriculture require more energy............maybe. There are other ways to raise livestock for food and it is easier than growing crops.

If I stand a cow out on the pasture for the summer, how is that using more energy then tilling, planting, caring for the crop, harvesting, etc? For one, ruminants ie cattle can take marginal pasture and turn it into protein. Try growing your grain on hilly, rocky terrain and then get back to me. They also supply milk, hides and even fertilizer. I'd like to see you get that out of your crops.

If you are suggesting that people wont have fire at some point then they won't have much of anything else either at that point.

These comments often come from people that have never grown a vegetable or raised an animal.

[frankthetank]

I think in Mongolia they use shit to heat their food? Same can be done here? I too believe the forests of N. America are doomed at SOME point. It'll take a lot of wood to heat the northern cities. Look @ England back before they used coal. They were running out of wood. I suppose we will import some or steal from Cananda and i wouldn't doubt seeing tropical woods being brought north from the Amazon. I also see a sort of exodus from the north to warmer climates when heating becomes too expensive. Most people don't like cold homes, hell right now most people can't deal with 65F or less.

[billp]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')nce energy shortages seriously interfere with meat production, everything that moves and breathes will die. It will only be a matter of time. We are going to hunt every source of protein to extinction.

[sirrom]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jbeckton', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sirrom', 'W')hen oil becomes so expensive that most people can't afford to use it to heat their homes,many people are going to turn to wood to keep their houses warm.
The problem is that in alot of place,there are not alot of trees left for people to cut down and once all the trees have gone,people will have to do without heating or just start burning books or furniture,but eventually that will run out.
The reason i'm saying this is that without fire there is going to be no way for people to cook meat(i'm assuming here that the electrical grid has collapsed and gas is also very expensive). Without anyway to cook the meat this will mean that keeping animals for meat is completly pointless. Once people get rid of the animals, they will use the land to grow things like vegatables and fruit and anything that they can eat raw.
For those of you who do not know, growing crops is a much more efficient use of land,water and energy. so with all the animals gone this means we will be able to produce more food and more people will survive.(providing they live in a temperate climate,like the UK,and don't need heating).
This is the reason why i think that peak oil is a good thing(no more animal murder).

[Homesteader]

I prefer my wheat, corn, dry beans, chick peas, winter squash and potatoes cooked as well.

[jbeckton]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sirrom', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jbeckton', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sirrom', 'W')hen oil becomes so expensive that most people can't afford to use it to heat their homes,many people are going to turn to wood to keep their houses warm.

The problem is that in alot of place,there are not alot of trees left for people to cut down and once all the trees have gone,people will have to do without heating or just start burning books or furniture,but eventually that will run out.

The reason i'm saying this is that without fire there is going to be no way for people to cook meat(i'm assuming here that the electrical grid has collapsed and gas is also very expensive). Without anyway to cook the meat this will mean that keeping animals for meat is completly pointless. Once people get rid of the animals, they will use the land to grow things like vegatables and fruit and anything that they can eat raw.

For those of you who do not know, growing crops is a much more efficient use of land,water and energy. so with all the animals gone this means we will be able to produce more food and more people will survive.(providing they live in a temperate climate,like the UK,and don't need heating).

This is the reason why i think that peak oil is a good thing(no more animal murder).