[nocar]

A textbook on human prehistory that I read a long time ago stated that ( contrary to the common perception) the great use of the new invention fire, was to cook veggies. All meats and fish can be eaten raw, but lots of veggies need cooking or they give humans serious stomach upset. With fire, human suddenly had a much wider selection of foods at hand.

nocar

[Pops]

I guess if the point of the OP and several others is that their location will cause them to starve to death I guess I would suggest moving.

As SCF mentioned I am grazing about 25 head of cattle, another 2 dozen chickens and soon a couple of pigs, possibly even some goats in the near future, growing more vegetables than we can eat or can, as well as heating my home this winter with very little outside input.

We could easily feed quite a few more with no outside input whatsoever given those mouths are attached to willing hands.

I’m not bragging, it isn’t always easy, and it takes a while to get going.

You just gotta have the want-to instead of the can’t-do..

[jbeckton]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'I') guess if the point of the OP and several others is that their location will cause them to starve to death I guess I would suggest moving.

[Pops]

Oh.

Nevermind.

[manu]

People, esp. in the colder climates will be very thankful if they have a ox, to help moving wood and other things around. Also they can power pumps, saws, ect. After the dieoff they will be the source of power that everyone is looking for.

[Blacksmith]

I think the ox theory is right on the money.

http://prairieoxdrovers.com/index.html

[manu]

Thanks for the link Blacksmith, I didnt have that one. Many people dont realize that the manure when mixed with straw and dried is the best cooking fuel. Cow manure is antiseptic. I saw an articule about how it has been introduced in Kenya where the children were dying because the mothers couldnt boil water for lack of wood.

[Ayoob]

The OP has opened my mind. That's it! I'm going Vegan and never looking back.

God bless you, sirrom. You and all your kind. Never again will I feel the pangs of guilt from the secret knowledge that my dinner had nothing but suffering and cruelty behind it.

I'm going to throw out my meat cleaver right now.

Just did it.

Thank you again, sirrom. I love you!

[Ayoob]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('manu', 'm')anure when mixed with straw and dried is the best cooking fuel.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sirrom', ' ')Once people get rid of the animals...

This is the reason why i think that peak oil is a good thing(no more animal murder).

[TheDude]

Animals are your #1 source of leather, too. Good luck making shoes out of corn husks. You could make clogs with hemp uppers I suppose.

Vegan(tarianism) is another luxury of plentiful energy that will fall by the wayside in the face of need, unless you're a Jainist.

Animals
Talking Heads
-----------

I'm mad...And that's a fact
I found out...Animals don't help
Animal think...They're pretty smart
Shit on the ground...See in the dark.

They wander around like a crazy dog
Make a mistake in the parking lot
Always bumping into things
Always let you down down down down.

Animals

[sirrom]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sirrom', ' ')Once people get rid of the animals...

This is the reason why i think that peak oil is a good thing(no more animal murder).

[manu]

[quote="TheDude"]Animals are your #1 source of leather, too. Good luck making shoes out of corn husks. You could make clogs with hemp uppers I suppose.

Vegan(tarianism) is another luxury of plentiful energy that will fall by the wayside in the face of need, unless you're a Jainist.quote]

No one said that you cant use the leather when the animal dies naturally. There is a difference between vegans and vegetarians. You can use milk products. It will be harder to be a vegetarian in colder climates but you shouldnt kill the cows. I think that overall there will be much less meat eating in people's diets. Esp. if they have to hunt, fish or trap it. Also people on farms will eat more birds, chickens, then the draft animals they need for plowing or milking. My great grandfather homesteded in the Dakotas and as a child I remember how much meat they ate. Way less then what is in people's diets today.

[TheDude]

Oh yeah. Meat used to be much more of a treat than is currently the case.

I'm talking about people's squeamishness about things like tanning leather, or wringing chicken's necks, or hunting in general. Hard to maintain your ethical stance when you're stomach's growling hard. Also people will be forced to deal with predators of all sizes.

Why would people hunt/trap/fish less? Admittedly they will likely thin out the herds at first, but who's going to pass up such a relatively free meal? Also most people don't know anything about foraging but they'll certainly try to hunt or fish.

[Homesteader]

Half the chickens that hatch are roosters. Half the calves born are bulls. Vegetarians want their ben & jerries, egg white omelettes, birkenstocks, cheese, baked goods etc. . .but don't face the basic facts about animal husbandry.

It is a whole lot easier to raise chickens, pigs, sheep and cows on poor land than it is to raise wheat, soybeans, on good land. The vegetarians need to go prepare an acre of decent ground with animal power or their own power, sow the wheat by hand, pray it doesn't get destroyed by the weather, pests or disease, harvest it by hand, separate the wheat from the chaff, grind the wheat, make whatever they want, save enough seed for next year.

Our animals are on pasture/cut over land year round, walk around harvesting the suns energy with no help from us, come get their own water when they want it, go lie in the sun or the shade as they wish. They reproduce themselves with very little input from us. In the meantime we get milk daily, make a variety of cheeses, get good manure for the gardens. No pesticides, fungicides, steroids, or genetically modified food.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sirrom', 'l')ive on the farm,then i could go and rescue some animals

[manu]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', 'O')h yeah. Meat used to be much more of a treat than is currently the case.

I'm talking about people's squeamishness about things like tanning leather, or wringing chicken's necks, or hunting in general. Hard to maintain your ethical stance when you're stomach's growling hard. Also people will be forced to deal with predators of all sizes.

Why would people hunt/trap/fish less? Admittedly they will likely thin out the herds at first, but who's going to pass up such a relatively free meal? Also most people don't know anything about foraging but they'll certainly try to hunt or fish.

[oilfreeandhappy]

Call Charlton Heston! We'll need the NRA to guard the Soylent Green!

[sirrom]

http://www.countercurrents.org/goodchild220907.htm

check out this article if you still think it is a good idea to eat meat

[Ferretlover]

Lately, you've probably been hearing "buy locally, save the environment!" left and right. It's true -- a great deal of energy goes into producing, packaging, shipping, storing, and cooking just a single meal. One little tomato can travel over 1,500 miles to end up in the produce aisle at your nearest grocery store; on the other hand, if you buy from local farmers that tomato only has to travel about 60 miles. While, several organizations heavily emphasize buying organic and purchasing your produce at the local farmers market to save on shipping and packaging costs, this graph shows that the largest expense of energy takes place after your food arrives home. This pie chart breaks up energy expenditures related to food production in the United States: home refrigeration and preperation is responsible for about 30 percent; agricultural production, 20 percent; transport, 13 percent; and packaging, 6 percent. …

Food related energy usage